Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
togger

What was the premises ?

Recommended Posts

Evening all,

Not sure that i have posted this in the correct place, but here goes.

I am looking at one of my ancestors and have discovered that he lived at 4 ct River Lane, about 1886 to 1888 Sheffield which was near the Midland Railway Station (as far as i can gather)?

Anyway, it seems that whilst living at this address he had three of his sons die as the death certificates say that 4ct River lane is place of death of these children. One of the deaths in 1886 and two in 1888, but i have also found a death at the same address for a Mary Rogers in Aug 1888 whilst my ancestor Mr May was living there with his wife who has a different maiden name to Mary Rodgers. 

So, my questions are:

1. How can i find out who lived in this house at this time? (census does not tell me anything)

2. Was the house a B&B type house where more than one family lived or similar to a work house, maybe?

3. The three children are buried in a different grave from Mary so perhaps not related?

4. Or, have i missed something and not seeing it?

Please help if possible

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, togger said:

I am looking at one of my ancestors and have discovered that he lived at 4 ct River Lane, about 1886 to 1888 Sheffield which was near the Midland Railway Station (as far as i can gather)?

River Lane ran off Pond Hill at the side of the Queens Head. I was surprised to find it has gone, It was still there the last time I saw Sheffield.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes i dont know when it went and i cant find a map showing the houses on the lane, although there are images on Picture Sheffield, but dont help my plight i am afraid!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No.4 Court, River Lane was actually a terrace of 18 dwellings (9 each side), which you can see on the attached map, in the centre. Map is dated 1890, so right on the money, in terms of period?!

That probably explains the number of people with different names, all recorded at that address?

The image is of Mate's Square, the next 'Court' to the left

Picture Sheffield = River Lane

The term 'Court' was used to describe a number of dwellings, around a central courtyard and were widespread across the city. As you can see, they were not exactly des' res' and were more accurately described as slums, which got the chop as they were cleared wholesale in the 50's and 60's....

Doesn't exactly answer your questions, but hope it gives you something to work with?

Screen Shot 2018-01-31 at 18.41.58.jpg

Screen Shot 2018-01-31 at 18.45.50.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Mr Longden,

Thats a great help, although i wish we could determine which dwelling was number 1. I wonder if anyone can help with which way the numbers would have gone?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, togger said:

Hello Mr Longden,

Thats a great help, although i wish we could determine which dwelling was number 4. I wonder if anyone can help with which way the numbers would have gone?

Close up here togger .

EDIT - Sorry I forgot the credit links - for that map       ------

http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/firemaps/england/yorkshire/zoomify150029.html

And the site  page with the first Sheffield plan on here, more on following pages     ------- 

http://gallery.bl.uk/viewall/default.aspx?e=Fire insurance maps and plans Yorkshire and Humber&n=20&r=10

 

court_4_river_lane.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, togger said:

Hello Mr Longden,

Thats a great help, although i wish we could determine which dwelling was number 4. I wonder if anyone can help with which way the numbers would have gone?

Sorry, I have no idea?

However, as boginspro's extremely helpful Insurance Map of the period shows, Court Number (No.) 4 is the collective for the block, not any one dwelling - at least not annotated on this map? However, if the numbering protocol follows Mate's Square, you may have your answer???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, togger said:

Evening all,

Not sure that i have posted this in the correct place, but here goes.

I am looking at one of my ancestors and have discovered that he lived at 4 ct River Lane, about 1886 to 1888 Sheffield which was near the Midland Railway Station (as far as i can gather)?

Anyway, it seems that whilst living at this address he had three of his sons die as the death certificates say that 4ct River lane is place of death of these children. One of the deaths in 1886 and two in 1888, but i have also found a death at the same address for a Mary Rogers in Aug 1888 whilst my ancestor Mr May was living there with his wife who has a different maiden name to Mary Rodgers. 

So, my questions are:

1. How can i find out who lived in this house at this time? (census does not tell me anything)

2. Was the house a B&B type house where more than one family lived or similar to a work house, maybe?

3. The three children are buried in a different grave from Mary so perhaps not related?

4. Or, have i missed something and not seeing it?

Please help if possible

Thanks

Possible motherinlaw to his first wife?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may be wrong here but as   RLongden says if the addresses are just Court 4, could the different names be just in different houses in that court. I have  found many references to Court 4 but haven't come across any house numbers.  I can't quite understand that, especially as all the numbers are there on River Lane and Mates Square on maps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are c70 burials from 4ct River Lane transcribed at Sheffield Indexers, c40 of those have house numbers. The 30 that don't include three MAY children who I assume are the ones for which you have certificates.

The same site also has baptisms for 5 children of James MAY and Mary (MURPHY)

 

Hugh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the 1879 Directory these are the only people listed, courts are mentioned but not the people who live there.

RIVER LANE. (Pond hill.)

Ashley George, wheelwright, &c

3 Morris James, cowkeeper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

White's Directory of Sheffield 1901 shows River Lane, with numbers and / or names of people and / or businesses.

(bottom left and top centre columns)

Court 4 gets a mention, but no details. Elsewhere on the page, other mentions of Courts, but again, no details.

I doubt that in those days, individual addresses were always required? Also, probably the need to correctly route post and identify people with an exact address wasn't necessary? In the case of the census entry, just rounding up the people in 'Court 4’ would maybe have sufficed?

IMG_3112.PNG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hugh, the three children are my relatives but i would be very interested in seeing the five baptisms please. I only have James, Thomas & Michael born there, so another two would be a bonus. James May and Mary Murphy are my GG Grand parents. James is first seen in Sheffield in 1875 when he marries Mary at St Maries, before this James is very elusive. Born Ireland 1849 and thats all i have.

Boginspro, There is certainly house numbers on the certificates so there must have been house numbers, but as to which way they were on the Fire Certificate map is debatable. Although it would be nice to know as the picture Sheffield image could be my ancesters actual house?

Also, thanks for the links they are brill

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, togger said:

There is certainly house numbers on the certificates so there must have been house numbers, but as to which way they were on the Fire Certificate map is debatable

What house numbers have you got on the certificates please togger  , just wondering whether low or higher numbers. The Picture Sheffield image put on by RLongden is Mate's Square, the next court, so it won't be one of those houses but probably identical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, togger said:

Image attached - I think this is 1 house court 4 River Lane

That's interesting, it is noticeable that in Mate's Square number 1 is to the left of the entrance arch and numbers then go round clockwise, so I suppose it is likely that Court 4 followed similar numbering.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, boginspro said:

That's interesting, it is noticeable that in Mate's Square number 1 is to the left of the entrance arch and numbers then go round clockwise, so I suppose it is likely that Court 4 followed similar numbering.

So, if you count as Mates Square it would mean that there was not a number 19 and out of the court to number 20?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A source of house numbers, even in courts, would be the electoral rolls (available in the Local Studies Library on microfiche.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, togger said:

So, if you count as Mates Square it would mean that there was not a number 19 and out of the court to number 20?

Seems strange but I did wonder why there appears to be no 2 to 18 on River Lane, there are numbers 1 to 19 on the other side of River Lane, number 19 being next to Joseph Rodgers cart shed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×