Castle Market, Listed Building?

[DaveH]

With the economic climate as it is have they just condemned the old Market and postponed, indefinately, the new Market area i.e. taken a bad situation and made it even worse ?

I think so, not a lot of work going on at Moorfoot at present compared to this time last year, seems to have come to a standstill now that the Moor street section is complete.

To be fair though, the planning of the new Moorfoot market and the redevelopment of the old Castle Market site, as well as the redevelopment of Park hill flats, all predate the current financial recession and expenditure cuts.

It wouldn't be 100% fair to blame the council as no one could have predicted the recession coming. They probably planned these things to a proper budget and then the money get cut.

[DaveH]

A couple of artists impressions on here :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/sheffield/hi/people_and_places/newsid_8868000/8868795.stm

Will you only be able to sop there in silhouette?

There are no silhouettes in this artists impression of what the new market will look like which is on the fencing outside the new market area at Moor foot

Although it appears that no work is taking place on the site it is now completely fenced off with 8 foot high solid fencing so it is impossible to see what is going off on the site (unless you go and look out of a window on the 3rd floor of a nearby building).

"COMING SOON" says the sign, - but without giving a completion date or saying how soon.

[DaveH]

There are no silhouettes in this artists impression of what the new market will look like which is on the fencing outside the new market area at Moor foot

Although it appears that no work is taking place on the site it is now completely fenced off with 8 foot high solid fencing so it is impossible to see what is going off on the site (unless you go and look out of a window on the 3rd floor of a nearby building).

"COMING SOON" says the sign, - but without giving a completion date or saying how soon.

Now this sign, also outside the new market site, informs us that the old site has been a market for over 700 years and that it will be a big event when it moves to the new site.

So why do we need to move the market?

Why can't they build a new market on the original site? (Yes, OK, in place of Castle Market)?

Why is a site that has been an idea market place for over 700 years now considered to be unsuitable for a market?

Why have we deceided to abandon 700 years of market history and start anew somewhere else?

[duckweed]

Well their sign is incorrect as the market has moved several times so can't say it has been on any particular site for 700 years. Indeed if it had been on one site for 700 years it wouldn't have the castle ruins under it.

[vox]

Indeed if it had been on one site for 700 years it wouldn't have the castle ruins under it.

Brilliant - he he

[DaveH]

Well their sign is incorrect as the market has moved several times so can't say it has been on any particular site for 700 years. Indeed if it had been on one site for 700 years it wouldn't have the castle ruins under it.

It may not be that incorrect depending on what you mean by "the current Market site"

It does not just mean the Castle Market, which only dates back less than a century.

It means the entire site used traditionally as Sheffields historic market place which would have been just outside the castle or possibly in its forecourt.

This would include not only the Castle market site, but also that occupied by the sheaf market, the rag n' tag market, the market hall, Haymarket (now a street but traditionally part of the markets) and its fore runner, Beastmarket.

This is quite a big area, and its position in relation to the old castle is now debatable, but I would class all this as "the market site. There is a good description of it with some rough maps / plans in one of David Hey's books on the history of Sheffield.

At this time the Moorfoot area would have been undeveloped, sparsely populated and not even part of Sheffield as such.

[SteveHB]

It may not be that incorrect depending on what you mean by "the current Market site"

It does not just mean the Castle Market, which only dates back less than a century.

It means the entire site used traditionally as Sheffields historic market place which would have been just outside the castle or possibly in its forecourt.

This would include not only the Castle market site, but also that occupied by the sheaf market, the rag n' tag market, the market hall, Haymarket (now a street but traditionally part of the markets) and its fore runner, Beastmarket.

This is quite a big area, and its position in relation to the old castle is now debatable, but I would class all this as "the market site. There is a good description of it with some rough maps / plans in one of David Hey's books on the history of Sheffield.

At this time the Moorfoot area would have been undeveloped, sparsely populated and not even part of Sheffield as such.

It is how they have phrased it in the poster that is not very clear !

"Come on lads, where are we going on a pub crawl tonight .. " ?

... "Lets have a wander round "the Castle end of town"

:

[DaveH]

"Come on lads, where are we going on a pub crawl tonight .. " ?

... "Lets have a wander round "the Castle end of town"

:

Nah! I fancy a wander round "the Moor end of town"

B)

[SteveHB]

Nah! I fancy a wander round "the Moor end of town"

I take it we are off up 'Fanny Brown' then ?

lol

[duckweed]

It may not be that incorrect depending on what you mean by "the current Market site"

It does not just mean the Castle Market, which only dates back less than a century.

It means the entire site used traditionally as Sheffields historic market place which would have been just outside the castle or possibly in its forecourt.

This would include not only the Castle market site, but also that occupied by the sheaf market, the rag n' tag market, the market hall, Haymarket (now a street but traditionally part of the markets) and its fore runner, Beastmarket.

This is quite a big area, and its position in relation to the old castle is now debatable, but I would class all this as "the market site. There is a good description of it with some rough maps / plans in one of David Hey's books on the history of Sheffield.

At this time the Moorfoot area would have been undeveloped, sparsely populated and not even part of Sheffield as such.

[grenoboy]

It beggars belief that anyone would want to list this building.

It's a crumbling pile of ferro-concrete with no aesthetic merit whatsoever. When you look at some of what's been done with some of the old West Yorkshire market halls it makes you weep that the old Norfolk Market Hall was demolished. The basic structure of the old market hall seemed to be sound and the unimpeded internal space was capable of easy re-arrangement.

If this end of the city is ever to be improved then that building has got to go.

Bags I get first clout with the wrecking ball.

HD

Owen Hatherley disagrees, in his book The New Ruins of Great Britain.

[DaveH]

Owen Hatherley disagrees, in his book The New Ruins of Great Britain.

Welcome to Sheffield History grenoboy and thank you for posting.

The quoted book is not one I am familiar with. Do you have any more details?

[DaveH]

I take it we are off up 'Fanny Brown' then ?

Could always go down the Rodley Inn to annoy Stuart and his folks B)

[DaveH]

Sadly, as the end draws nigh for Castle Market I am starting to signs like this one on shuttered up retail units

Closed for good!

That was someones business and livelihood

On the lower ground floor of Castle Market this is now becoming a common sight, Shuttered up and closed down stalls, hand written messages from the traders to their loyal customers who stuck with them to the end and in some cases even letters from the Council giving notice to quit their occupancy of the stall.

[ukelele lady]

On the lower ground floor of Castle Market this is now becoming a common sight, Shuttered up and closed down stalls, hand written messages from the traders to their loyal customers who stuck with them to the end and in some cases even letters from the Council giving notice to quit their occupancy of the stall.

So we will become a town with no meat & fish market, how sad.

I can't see a new one opening in the next two years.

[DaveH]

So we will become a town with no meat & fish market, how sad.

I can't see a new one opening in the next two years.

Fortunately the meat and fish market is still fully functional with all stalls open for business.

Most of the ground floor is still fully open, bar the odd one or two

But the lower ground floor is about 50% closed now.

Likewise, I can't see the new market development at Moorfoot being open in the next 2 years given the slowdown on the work there and the current economic climate.

So why are tradesmen at Castle Market being given immediate notice to quit with effect from now?

Surely they could remain in business there until the new premises are ready to be taken over.

[RichardB]

So why are tradesmen at Castle Market being given immediate notice to quit with effect from now?

Surely they could remain in business there until the new premises are ready to be taken over.

Not fair on the holdersl they should be allowed to trade-on and transfer to th new market as you say Dave.

[SteveHB]

So why are tradesmen at Castle Market being given immediate notice to quit with effect from now?

Due to non payment of rent in their objection to the rent increases perhaps ?

[DaveH]

Not fair on the holdersl they should be allowed to trade-on and transfer to th new market as you say Dave.

Problem is, if they have nowhere to trade for a couple of years they will, -

Retire / Go out of business / move on to a market somewhere else outside Sheffield / take one of several other options

This will mean that when the new market does finally open that the long serving loyal traders will be gone.

..and I feel that if all new businesses move into the new market, and not the older established ones, then the new market won't be a proper market, it will just be another Meadowhall / Crystal Peaks shopping centre.

[DaveH]

Due to non payment of rent in their objection to the rent increases perhaps ?

This could have something to do with it I suppose.

But 2 stalls I saw had their notice to quit with immediate effect letters from the Council on display and nowhere did it mention a reason for giving this notice, - be it none payment of rent or otherwise.

..and if the rents are high now in Castle Market, - imagine what they will want to charge in the new market. :o

[mick851]

just stumbled across this old postcard of the castle markets dated 1972, while i was looking for something else. i found it stuck in a photo album

mick

[DaveH]

just stumbled across this old postcard of the castle markets dated 1972, while i was looking for something else. i found it stuck in a photo album

mick

Now you know how I did that trick photo in post #45

Didn't realise it was a 1972 postcard though.

I got my copy of it from a collection of cards that Stuart0742 had and we had it down to a bit earlier than 1972, - some time in the 1960's.

So at least we now have one old postcard with an accurate date.

[mick851]

Now you know how I did that trick photo in post #45

Didn't realise it was a 1972 postcard though.

I got my copy of it from a collection of cards that Stuart0742 had and we had it down to a bit earlier than 1972, - some time in the 1960's.

So at least we now have one old postcard with an accurate date.

The postcard could be earlier, i was just going on the date where the stamp is, here's the reverse side of the postcard.

mick

[DaveH]

The postcard could be earlier, i was just going on the date where the stamp is, here's the reverse side of the postcard.

mick

A Sheffield postcard, - published by a company in Scarborough!!

But it probably is a 1960's image though.

I note it has a 3p stamp on it and dated 18 April 1972.

I think that would have been first class postage at the time, and sending postcards first class wasn't really necessary.

I still have my CSE / O-Level results in the original envelope they were mailed to me in dated August 1972, and that has a 2 1/2p (second class?) stamp on it.

Further to this as 1972 was only a year after decimalisation I think, without finding it out, that my stamp was double priced, - 2 1/2p (6d) but I can't see that it would be necessary to do this with postage stamps.

[Stuart0742]

A Sheffield postcard, - published by a company in Scarborough!!

But it probably is a 1960's image though.

I note it has a 3p stamp on it and dated 18 April 1972.

I think that would have been first class postage at the time, and sending postcards first class wasn't really necessary.

I still have my CSE / O-Level results in the original envelope they were mailed to me in dated August 1972, and that has a 2 1/2p (second class?) stamp on it.

Further to this as 1972 was only a year after decimalisation I think, without finding it out, that my stamp was double priced, - 2 1/2p (6d) but I can't see that it would be necessary to do this with postage stamps.

Its common with postcards to be way out of date, obviously the publisher, has a load printed and keeps selling them, next time you go to the coast look at some of the postcards on sale, I bet they are way out of date.