Castle Market, Listed Building?

[Bayleaf]

Just had an email from English Heritage to say that the application to make the Castle Markets a listed building has been turned down.

Apparently the Council's plan to demolish it and expose the castle remains could not be taken into consideration, the decision being taken purely on architectural and historical merit.

[RichardB]

Just had an email from English Heritage to say that the application to make the Castle Markets a listed building has been turned down.

Apparently the Council's plan to demolish it and expose the castle remains could not be taken into consideration, the decision being taken purely on architectural and historical merit.

Very interesting, Thanks.

What do people think of that ? Let it stand or knock it down ?

[Stuart0742]

Very interesting, Thanks.

What do people think of that ? Let it stand or knock it down ?

I say knock it down

Just consider what development opportunities it will open up:

The Castle remains obviously

Link the Quays into the city centre development

The old Town Hall building

The old HPO building in Fitzalan Square

To name but 4, there's a lot of development that is being held back by the market being there.

Of course there is, who pays for it and will Sheffield council do the correct thing

[hilldweller]

Very interesting, Thanks.

What do people think of that ? Let it stand or knock it down ?

It beggars belief that anyone would want to list this building.

It's a crumbling pile of ferro-concrete with no aesthetic merit whatsoever. When you look at some of what's been done with some of the old West Yorkshire market halls it makes you weep that the old Norfolk Market Hall was demolished. The basic structure of the old market hall seemed to be sound and the unimpeded internal space was capable of easy re-arrangement.

If this end of the city is ever to be improved then that building has got to go.

Bags I get first clout with the wrecking ball.

HD

[ukelele lady]

I say knock it down, let's see the remains of the castle.

Also let's smarten up the whole of this area, it's a total disgrace.

[RichardB]

I'm for knocking it down.

[ukelele lady]

I'm for knocking it down.

Right then, all those in favour get ya shovels and picks and off we go. he he

[hilldweller]

Right then, all those in favour get ya shovels and picks and off we go.

Hey-Ho, Hey Ho, It's off to work we go.

HD

[DaveH]

What a set of hammer happy Luddites my Sheffield History comrades are!

I like Castle Market.

OK the building is a bit shoddy and leaves a lot to be desired but it is familiar and instantly Sheffield.

You see, it's not just the building, it's the traders, the stallholders, the people that go there, the conversations that go on, the local charcters. They are what make the place the and what make it Sheffield.

It's a place where real Sheffielders go, not like that monstrosity at Meadowhall that attracts people from all over the place from miles away and which, amongst many other faults, totally lacks any character at all because of this, it's not as friendly, people don't talk to each other, it has no heart and soul.

Knock down Meadowhell, Knock down the Aztec temple that blocks off the Moorfoot but leave Castle Market alone until these have gone first.

When the market moves from Castle Market to the bottom of the Moor it's unique character will be lost and it just won't be the same. I don't think many of the Castle Market regulars will go the extra mile to Moorfoot to a modern characterless market and the traders will move elsewhere to find better business.

There are some of us that still mourn the loss of the Sheaf Market and the old "Rag 'n Tag" market in the Castle area.

Loss of the Castle Market as well?

It will be a sad day for me when it goes.

[RichardB]

What a set of hammer happy Luddites my Sheffield History comrades are!

I like Castle Market.

OK the building is a bit shoddy and leaves a lot to be desired but it is familiar and instantly Sheffield.

You see, it's not just the building, it's the traders, the stallholders, the people that go there, the conversations that go on, the local charcters. They are what make the place the and what make it Sheffield.

It's a place where real Sheffielders go, not like that monstrosity at Meadowhall that attracts people from all over the place from miles away and which, amongst many other faults, totally lacks any character at all because of this, it's not as friendly, people don't talk to each other, it has no heart and soul.

Knock down Meadowhell, Knock down the Aztec temple that blocks off the Moorfoot but leave Castle Market alone until these have gone first.

When the market moves from Castle Market to the bottom of the Moor it's unique character will be lost and it just won't be the same. I don't think many of the Castle Market regulars will go the extra mile to Moorfoot to a modern characterless market and the traders will move elsewhere to find better business.

There are some of us that still mourn the loss of the Sheaf Market and the old "Rag 'n Tag" market in the Castle area.

Loss of the Castle Market as well?

It will be a sad day for me when it goes.

Well put that man !

[DaveH]

Well put that man !

Not that well put Richard,

In post #6 you were all for knocking it down <_<

[RichardB]

Not that well put Richard,

In post #6 you were all for knocking it down

I still am, I can, however appreciate your opinion hence, well put - I don't have to agree to appreciate another viewpoint.

[DaveH]

I still am, I can, however appreciate your opinion hence, well put - I don't have to agree to appreciate another viewpoint.

So if the building goes what do you think they should do with the actual "market", ie the people and traders that give it its unique character, in order to keep it alive.

As stated earlier, I don't think moving the whole lot into a new building at the bottom of the Moor will preserve the essential essence and life blood of the Sheffield market, - it will just become a smaller version of Meadowhell or Crystal Peaks, just another totally characterless shopping centre rather than a proper market place.

[RichardB]

Not that well put Richard,

In post #6 you were all for knocking it down

It is not the arcades of Leeds (which I'm not that familiar with); or the 1830's Grainger Town of Newcastle (which I am familiar with), I think the concrete crenulation is hideous. The rest, average at best.

Willing, however, to listen to more discussion.

[ukelele lady]

What a set of hammer happy Luddites my Sheffield History comrades are!

There are some of us that still mourn the loss of the Sheaf Market and the old "Rag 'n Tag" market in the Castle area.

Loss of the Castle Market as well?

It will be a sad day for me when it goes.

I still mourn the Rag n Tag and the Sheaf market and the Castle market as it was, but if they

are not going to clean it up and restore it then I'd rather see the bits of the old castle on display.

Let's face it the majority of people that hang around the market are not old Sheffielders,

times have changed and to have it back like it used to be is wishful thinking. :(

[DaveH]

I still mourn the Rag n Tag and the Sheaf market and the Castle market as it was, but if they

are not going to clean it up and restore it then I'd rather see the bits of the old castle on display.

Let's face it the majority of people that hang around the market are not old Sheffielders,

times have changed and to have it back like it used to be is wishful thinking.

It would be great if they could clean it up or better still modernise and refurbish it a bit.

Do you go to Castle market much these days Ukelele Lady?

I go every Saturday morning and most of the people there are both OLD (average age older than me) and SHEFFIELDERS (as soon as they open their mouth to say anything gives that away), in fact, like me, most of them are the same people that have been going there for decades.

This is one of the reasons I don't think the market could move successfully to Moorfoot as many of the "regulars" are either too old or too set in their ways to accept the change.

[RichardB]

So if the building goes what do you think they should do with the actual "market", ie the people and traders that give it its unique character, in order to keep it alive.

As stated earlier, I don't think moving the whole lot into a new building at the bottom of the Moor will preserve the essential essence and life blood of the Sheffield market, - it will just become a smaller version of Meadowhell or Crystal Peaks, just another totally characterless shopping centre rather than a proper market place.

I've no idea of the layout of the new market/area, hope "the people" can make a community of it and its not another ... as you say. The Moor (lower) has been a characterless place since before you, or I, were born.

[ukelele lady]

It would be great if they could clean it up or better still modernise and refurbish it a bit.

Do you go to Castle market much these days Ukelele Lady?

I go every Saturday morning and most of the people there are both OLD (average age older than me) and SHEFFIELDERS (as soon as they open their mouth to say anything gives that away), in fact, like me, most of them are the same people that have been going there for decades.

This is one of the reasons I don't think the market could move successfully to Moorfoot as many of the "regulars" are either too old or too set in their ways to accept the change.

I hate entering through all the " backlog " before you get into the market. I agree once you are in they are true Sheffielders who have been going there for years and years, I even know some of them that work on the stalls.

But you have to admit that when these old regulars seize to be then there's not many young folk that go to meat and fish

markets. it's all Tescos etc , pre-packed.

The worst decision was to put the market in a completely different place, the Moor. That will kill it, it will never be the same.

[Stuart0742]

I hate entering through all the " backlog " before you get into the market. I agree once you are in they are true Sheffielders who have been going there for years and years, I even know some of them that work on the stalls.

But you have to admit that when these old regulars seize to be then there's not many young folk that go to meat and fish

markets. it's all Tescos etc , pre-packed.

The worst decision was to put the market in a completely different place, the Moor. That will kill it, it will never be the same.

There are some historic buildings in the area that can be restored, also the historic Victoria Quays and canal will never succeed whilst it is cut off from the rest of the City Centre.

Alright Leeds and Newcastle have some fine historic buildings for their markets, which have been restored well, we have a 1960's concrete mess that can not be restored. I think though its a wider problem than the market, its the whole area that needs sorting not just the market.

I agree The Moor is the wrong place for a market, I would think the majority of market customers either use public transport or walk. (should suit DaveH though, not far for him to walk after he's parked his car)

So I'm with the knock it down brigade.

[duckweed]

I use the old market and am looking forward to the new one opening on the Moor. There are several bus stops next to the proposed site as well as the Freebee bus stopping round the corner. I think if you had to move it out the area the Moor is the right choice given the type of shops nearby too.

What would be great, would be to knock down the market and do an archeaological dig there, to restore the old Town hall and turn it into a museum, and then develop the castle area along the lines of a Yorvik type facility based on the dig and the history of the castle. I've talked to a lot of people who really feel its time everyone got to know the early history of Sheffield.

[ukelele lady]

I use the old market and am looking forward to the new one opening on the Moor. There are several bus stops next to the proposed site as well as the Freebee bus stopping round the corner. I think if you had to move it out the area the Moor is the right choice given the type of shops nearby too.

What would be great, would be to knock down the market and do an archeaological dig there, to restore the old Town hall and turn it into a museum, and then develop the castle area along the lines of a Yorvik type facility based on the dig and the history of the castle. I've talked to a lot of people who really feel its time everyone got to know the early history of Sheffield.

I'll go along with that.

Compared to the Barnsley fish market ours is a bit of an embarrassment.

[dunsbyowl1867]

I've no idea of the layout of the new market/area, hope "the people" can make a community of it and its not another ... as you say. The Moor (lower) has been a characterless place since before you, or I, were born.

A couple of artists impressions on here :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/sheffield/hi/people_and_places/newsid_8868000/8868795.stm

Will you only be able to sop there in silhouette?

[Stuart0742]

A couple of artists impressions on here :

http://news.bbc.co.u...000/8868795.stm

Will you only be able to sop there in silhouette?

Transit posted this link in the Sheffield Castle topic

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/Sheffield-Castle-Market-39will-not.6668356.jp

Sounds like Sheffield Council know what they want to do

[DaveH]

I agree once you are in they are true Sheffielders who have been going there for years and years, I even know some of them that work on the stalls.

But you have to admit that when these old regulars seize to be then there's not many young folk that go to meat and fish

markets. it's all Tescos etc , pre-packed.

I think that's the real problem ukelele lady.

As the people get older and pass away the character will go with them.

I work with young people and I would not describe them as lacking character, but it seems to be the way of the world that people seem to be more selfish and only concerned about themselves these days and so seem to lack that friendly community spirit which the old market has. Further to this people seem to be lazier and go for the easiest option every time. That's why they go for pre packed supermarket food and instant meals, even at inflated prices, rather than buying fresh meat, fish, fruit and veg from the market.

I don't see this problem as being unique to Castle Market though, - it must be happeneing in all markets everywhere.

:(

[DaveH]

So I'm with the knock it down brigade.

Hmmm....

Have you thought of standing for Sheffield City Council

They would love to have you working on town planning down at the Town Hall.

Council policy on all buildings in Sheffield seems to be "just knock it down"