vox Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Ron Clayton asked me to post this. Fireplace at The Travellers Hi Andy, I am trying to save the dated 1697 Fire Place in the above, featured in last weeks Star. It has the initials GC on it and this, I understand is a member of the Carr Family. Any information from your erudite forum would strengthen my representations to Sheffield/Kelham Island Museums. Regards, Ron Clayton I'm sure any help we can give him would be appreciated. I don't know if he's seen this thread but I'll make him aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vox Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Travellers fireplace Photo from Ron Clayton You can show support for the effort to save this piece of Sheffield's history by emailing Councilor Roger Davison roger.davison@sheffield.gov.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayleaf Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 From reading the posts it seems that two solutions are under consideration, 1. to prevent the demolition of theTravellers, presumably by getting it listed, and 2. if demolition goes ahead, to persuade one or other museum to salvage the fireplace. But there's a third possibility. If Sainsbury's are successful and demolish the Travellers, the Council could make it a condition that they preserve the fireplace and make it a feature within the new building, with an information board. I've seen similar things done in a couple of supermarkets, not in Sheffield, but I'm blowed if I can remember where! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckweed Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 From reading the posts it seems that two solutions are under consideration, 1. to prevent the demolition of theTravellers, presumably by getting it listed, and 2. if demolition goes ahead, to persuade one or other museum to salvage the fireplace. But there's a third possibility. If Sainsbury's are successful and demolish the Travellers, the Council could make it a condition that they preserve the fireplace and make it a feature within the new building, with an information board. I've seen similar things done in a couple of supermarkets, not in Sheffield, but I'm blowed if I can remember where! This seems to be posted twice. My concern about Travellers Inn having researched it that some parts are said to be older in some descriptions not all Victorian. Also it is definitely on the site of a much older building. There may be interesting Archaeology in the building or at least under the building. Is there a chance that Sainsburys would legally have to bring in archaeologists before building on the top of it given that the history of the land goes back further that the present building? To list a building you have to make a case for it as being of architectural merit or unique historical interest. Are there any other non victorian features in the Inn other than the fireplace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayleaf Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 This seems to be posted twice. My concern about Travellers Inn having researched it that some parts are said to be older in some descriptions not all Victorian. Also it is definitely on the site of a much older building. There may be interesting Archaeology in the building or at least under the building. Is there a chance that Sainsburys would legally have to bring in archaeologists before building on the top of it given that the history of the land goes back further that the present building? To list a building you have to make a case for it as being of architectural merit or unique historical interest. Are there any other non victorian features in the Inn other than the fireplace? The South Yorkshire Archaeological Service is based in the Sheffield Planning Department and they are part of the planning process. All applications are passed to them and if there is anything of archaeological interest likely on the site they can require the developer to allow a site investigation before development proceeds. This is usually based on reported sites held in the Sites and Monuments Record which they maintain. You could draw their attention to the likelihood of earlier remains on the site, especially if it is backed up with evidence. Sometimes their first stage is a desktop survey of maps and documents covering the area. If this shows evidence of likey remains of interest they can take it further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckweed Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 The South Yorkshire Archaeological Service is based in the Sheffield Planning Department and they are part of the planning process. All applications are passed to them and if there is anything of archaeological interest likely on the site they can require the developer to allow a site investigation before development proceeds. This is usually based on reported sites held in the Sites and Monuments Record which they maintain. You could draw their attention to the likelihood of earlier remains on the site, especially if it is backed up with evidence. Sometimes their first stage is a desktop survey of maps and documents covering the area. If this shows evidence of likey remains of interest they can take it further. There is certainly clear evidence in land documents back to 1702 and that is just at a quick glance at National Archives catalogues. The obvious early source would to be to look for Feet of Fines which is the way land ownership was established at the local courts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckweed Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 There is certainly clear evidence in land documents back to 1702 and that is just at a quick glance at National Archives catalogues. The obvious early source would to be to look for Feet of Fines which is the way land ownership was established at the local courts. From the Hunterian society and article by S O Addy would suggest a William Carr owned or rented an inn on the Travellers site in the 1630s. His direct descendant was the George who put his initials on the fireplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vox Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 News so far from Ron. After an initial disappointing response from Museums Sheffield, Ron tells me that there may be some optimistic news shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vox Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Latest from Ron The Sainsburys application was approved by the city council planning committee yesterday which means that though the much altered Travellers pub will be demolished the 1697 fire place will be saved and taken to Kelham Island Museum. How it would have fared in the now closed pub is uncertain as the building was being stripped yesterday morning by thieves and a local councillor had to call the police and later call upon council officers to safeguard the building against further incursions. Such episodes are all to common in Sheffield with episodes of spontaneous heritage combustion ie Dial House, The Brushes etc also occurring. I will not be content until the fire place is safely inside Kelham but feel that the hard work of lobbying for this feature to be saved looks like paying off. Thanks are due to you, Duckwood and any member of the Forum who has helped. Regards Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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