Steam on the road

[DaveH]

Thanks Waterside,

Not seen that one before or even heard of the company but the engine at the front is a Sentinel steam waggon (notice Sentinel's own rathher unusual spelling of the word wagon with a double g). As it says the engines behind it are all internal combustion.

It's not obvious from the picture weather the Sentinel is just heading a line of vehicles or if it is towing the vehicles behind it like a road train, - something it would be more than capable of with a full fead of steam.

A locally kept Sentinel, well know at local steam rallies, is this one, a Super Sentinel DG4 number 8318, registered KF 2110 (although it does sometimes seem to have a different registration plate on ) built at the Sentinel works in Shropshire in 1930.

Again, notice Sentinel's spelling of waggon, - with the double g, on this example.

[DaveH]

Now a friend of mine in the steam club, Irvin Barraclough, wanted a Sentinel, couldn't find one so decided to build his own

It has a Sentinel RAILWAY steam engine, - much more powerful than those on road vehicles. Sentinel built these for use in tram engines, - those sort of shed on rails things that you see in Thomas the tank engine with a face on the front. To support this it mounted on a midified 6 wheel ERF lorry chassis and has a reversed 4:1 ratio Volvo gearbox as the gearbox need to gear up a slow running high torque steam engine rather than gear down a high revving lower torque Diseasel intefernal combustion engine!

The engine is called "Typhoo" in honour of the endless cups of tea which were consumed during its design, planning and manufacture at Sam Wards yard.

Once had the priveledge of going on the road with this with Irvin. With that big engine it can really shift, easily keeping up with modern traffic but while travelling at speed boy can it get through some coal and water

Shown here in 2002 at the ONCA rally, working, running but not finished, Irvin at the wheel.

And here at the same rally in 2005, now a finished engine the "brick on wheels", although it has been modified and added to since.

[DaveH]

An unusual steam roller

Here are a couple of pictures from my collection of another local (until he sold it to get another engine) steam engine.

This one was owned by another friend of mine from the steam club Les Donn Jnr. , thats Les at the wheel on the picture of the engine in steam at the ONCA rally 1999.

The engine is an Aveling & Porter made at their works in Rochester in Kent in 1908 (so it is now just over 100 years old )

Nothing unusual about that, Aveling & Porter were the biggest and best known manufacturers of steam rollers in the world, given away by their mascot, a rearing brass horse on the front roll headstock.

This is works number 6530 registered NM 291 in 1908 and sold to Luton Council

What is unusual about it is that it is a tandem roller, - it has no rear wheels but instead just has another roll like the one on the front (except that it is partially hidden by the footplate).

Having 2 rolls makes the engine very difficult to steer as it just wants to keep going in a straight line.

QUIZ QUESTION

(Stuart0742 is barred as I have already told him the answer, madannie will probably know straight away)

What was the purpose of this unusual design of roller?

[madannie77]

An unusual steam roller

Here are a couple of pictures from my collection of another local (until he sold it to get another engine) steam engine.

This one was owned by another friend of mine from the steam club Les Donn Jnr. , thats Les at the wheel on the picture of the engine in steam at the ONCA rally 1999.

The engine is an Aveling & Porter made at their works in Rochester in Kent in 1908 (so it is now just over 100 years old )

Nothing unusual about that, Aveling & Porter were the biggest and best known manufacturers of steam rollers in the world, given away by their mascot, a rearing brass horse on the front roll headstock.

This is works number 6530 registered NM 291 in 1908 and sold to Luton Council

What is unusual about it is that it is a tandem roller, - it has no rear wheels but instead just has another roll like the one on the front (except that it is partially hidden by the footplate).

Having 2 rolls makes the engine very difficult to steer as it just wants to keep going in a straight line.

QUIZ QUESTION

(Stuart0742 is barred as I have already told him the answer, madannie will probably know straight away)

What was the purpose of this unusual design of roller?

It must be copied from a Roman design - with their roads there was no need to steer lol

[DaveH]

It must be copied from a Roman design - with their roads there was no need to steer

Not to do with straight roads madannie.

Then of course in the TV series "Chelmsford 123" there was the Chelmsford by-pass which was built by the Roman road designer "Octavian the bender" who put bends and detours in Roman roads

in fact not to do with how difficult it is to steer.

BUT

This question was imspired by something you said in another transport thread so I thought you would be the one to get it.

However, if you are struggling I will give you another clue which should make the answer clear to you ;-)

[madannie77]

Not to do with straight roads madannie.

Then of course in the TV series "Chelmsford 123" there was the Chelmsford by-pass which was built by the Roman road designer "Octavian the bender" who put bends and detours in Roman roads

in fact not to do with how difficult it is to steer.

BUT

This question was imspired by something you said in another transport thread so I thought you would be the one to get it.

However, if you are struggling I will give you another clue which should make the answer clear to you

I really don't know the real answer, so a clue would be very welcome,

[Stuart0742]

I really don't know the real answer, so a clue would be very welcome,

Is it something to do with trams

Just found out I am banned from this, right we will have to guess the answer before DaveH returns then I will delete my post, he will never know lol

[DaveH]

Is it something to do with trams

Just found out I am banned from this, right we will have to guess the answer before DaveH returns then I will delete my post, he will never know

My clue was going to be a bit better than just "its something to do with trams"

Clue:-

The roll width on this machine is about four foot eight and a half inches.

[Stuart0742]

My clue was going to be a bit better than just "its something to do with trams"

Clue:-

The roll width on this machine is about four foot eight and a half inches.

I said "Is it something to do with trams" :)

[DaveH]

I said "Is it something to do with trams"

Well you KNOW it's something to do with trams, - I told you the answer in the boozer last week!

[Stuart0742]

Well you KNOW it's something to do with trams, - I told you the answer in the boozer last week!

I was pretending I did not know, to help MA :)

[DaveH]

I was pretending I did not know, to help MA

Leave the girl alone or I'll tell your mother about you lol

[Stuart0742]

Leave the girl alone or I'll tell your mother about you

Tell her , she would soon forget lol

[DaveH]

Tell her , she would soon forget

But Mrs.0742 wouldn't :o

[madannie77]

I was pretending I did not know, to help MA

I need all the help I can get: there is a reason for the Mad Annie name, , and I never could resist any man with a fine collection of tramway photos. Be grateful I am in Carlisle

Back to the matter in hand: perhaps that roller width came in handy for levelling the tarmac between those tramlines without coating the tracks as well (as once happened with disastrous consequences in Bath in 1933, when a tram lost grip due to tar on the track, ran away backwards and two people were killed).

[Guest transit]

....maybe of interest ! ............. Wed 18 Nov , 7pm BBC 2 - " Fastest Steam Car in the World " ;-)

[DaveH]

I need all the help I can get: there is a reason for the Mad Annie name, , and I never could resist any man with a fine collection of tramway photos. Be grateful I am in Carlisle

Back to the matter in hand: perhaps that roller width came in handy for levelling the tarmac between those tramlines without coating the tracks as well (as once happened with disastrous consequences in Bath in 1933, when a tram lost grip due to tar on the track, ran away backwards and two people were killed).

You don't need any more clues madannie, that's exactly what it was designed for, - rolling the bit of road that was between the tramlines.

[DaveH]

....maybe of interest ! ............. Wed 18 Nov , 7pm BBC 2 - " Fastest Steam Car in the World "

certainly of interest transit.

A BRITISH team (steam seems to be a very British thing, - not surprising as we invinted steam power in the first place) set a new world speed record for a steam powered "car".

The record set was around 147mph in a 25 foot long car powered by a small steam turbine.

The previous record for a steam car was set in 1908 and was about 125mph, so its a record that stood for over 100 years even in a century when the speed of powered vehicles increased rapidly.

As far as I know the record for a steam railway locomotive set by the Mallard in 1938 (126mph) still stands.

[madannie77]

certainly of interest transit.

A BRITISH team (steam seems to be a very British thing, - not surprising as we invinted steam power in the first place) set a new world speed record for a steam powered "car".

The record set was around 147mph in a 25 foot long car powered by a small steam turbine.

The previous record for a steam car was set in 1908 and was about 125mph, so its a record that stood for over 100 years even in a century when the speed of powered vehicles increased rapidly.

As far as I know the record for a steam railway locomotive set by the Mallard in 1938 (126mph) still stands.

I've always found it slightly ridiculous that the fastest steam locomotive (downhill and probably with a following wind!) was named after a duck lol

[madannie77]

You don't need any more clues madannie, that's exactly what it was designed for, - rolling the bit of road that was between the tramlines.

I prefer the roman road answer, though

I wonder if any were made for use on the numerous tramways in the UK which were built to 3 ft 6 in gauge? Such a narrow roller might be a little bit unstable, perhaps?

[DaveH]

I prefer the roman road answer, though

I wonder if any were made for use on the numerous tramways in the UK which were built to 3 ft 6 in gauge? Such a narrow roller might be a little bit unstable, perhaps?

Now a miniature steam engine could quite easily do the 3 foot 6 inch bit, - but perhaps wouldn't have the same rolling pressure to compress the tar.

Robey's of Lincoln made some tri-tandem rollers with 3 rolls in line.

They must have been almost impossible to steer!

I'll try and find out a picture of one.

[madannie77]

Now a friend of mine in the steam club, Irvin Barraclough, wanted a Sentinel, couldn't find one so decided to build his own

It has a Sentinel RAILWAY steam engine, - much more powerful than those on road vehicles. Sentinel built these for use in tram engines, - those sort of shed on rails things that you see in Thomas the tank engine with a face on the front. To support this it mounted on a midified 6 wheel ERF lorry chassis and has a reversed 4:1 ratio Volvo gearbox as the gearbox need to gear up a slow running high torque steam engine rather than gear down a high revving lower torque Diseasel intefernal combustion engine!

The engine is called "Typhoo" in honour of the endless cups of tea which were consumed during its design, planning and manufacture at Sam Wards yard.

Once had the priveledge of going on the road with this with Irvin. With that big engine it can really shift, easily keeping up with modern traffic but while travelling at speed boy can it get through some coal and water

Shown here in 2002 at the ONCA rally, working, running but not finished, Irvin at the wheel.

And here at the same rally in 2005, now a finished engine the "brick on wheels", although it has been modified and added to since.

What a machine! Completely bonkers!

To digress slightly, I don't think Sentienl ever built the "traditional" tram engines, although alll their steam locomotives were vertical boilered and did not look much like ordinary locomotives, the first being built in 1923 (if my info is correct). A couple of their products here, and they made others which were less aesthetically appealing (such as the LNER Y1 and Y3 class).

EDIT

Whoops! uploaded the post before adding the images. The real post is #51 below.

[DaveH]

I've always found it slightly ridiculous that the fastest steam locomotive (downhill and probably with a following wind!) was named after a duck

As you well know madannie the Mallard was one of those streamlined (like a duck) Pacific class locomotives which carried a variety of interesting names.

The "Sir Nigel Gressley", The "Union of South Africa" for example.

[DaveH]

What a machine! Completely bonkers!

To digress slightly, I don't think Sentienl ever built the "traditional" tram engines, although alll their steam locomotives were vertical boilered and did not look much like ordinary locomotives, the first being built in 1923 (if my info is correct). A couple of their products here, and they made others which were less aesthetically appealing (such as the LNER Y1 and Y3 class).

Not a Sentinel tram engine, - a Sentinel steam engine which had been previously fitted in a tram engine.

Or at least I think thats what Irvin said when he told us about how he came to build Typhoo

[madannie77]

Now a friend of mine in the steam club, Irvin Barraclough, wanted a Sentinel, couldn't find one so decided to build his own

It has a Sentinel RAILWAY steam engine, - much more powerful than those on road vehicles. Sentinel built these for use in tram engines, - those sort of shed on rails things that you see in Thomas the tank engine with a face on the front. To support this it mounted on a midified 6 wheel ERF lorry chassis and has a reversed 4:1 ratio Volvo gearbox as the gearbox need to gear up a slow running high torque steam engine rather than gear down a high revving lower torque Diseasel intefernal combustion engine!

The engine is called "Typhoo" in honour of the endless cups of tea which were consumed during its design, planning and manufacture at Sam Wards yard.

Once had the priveledge of going on the road with this with Irvin. With that big engine it can really shift, easily keeping up with modern traffic but while travelling at speed boy can it get through some coal and water

Shown here in 2002 at the ONCA rally, working, running but not finished, Irvin at the wheel.

And here at the same rally in 2005, now a finished engine the "brick on wheels", although it has been modified and added to since.

What a machine! Completely bonkers!

To digress slightly, I am not sure that Sentinel ever built "traditional" tram engines, although alll their steam locomotives were vertical boilered and did not look much like ordinary locomotives, the first being built in 1923 (if my info is correct). A couple of their products here, and they made others which were less aesthetically appealing (such as the LNER Y1 and Y3 class).

Gasbag (8024/1929), now at the Ribble Stream Railway

No 4 (9559/1953), now at the Tanfield Railway

And as a contrast, an Aveling & Porter locomotive: (807/1872) at Buckinghamshire Railway Centre.