Guest Tracey Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 Hello, just introducing myself & wish I had more time to read everything on this great site. My surname interest is Bertie. My gt gt gt grandfather William Bertie lived & died in Sheffield, he was only 42 when he died. He married Jane Campbell in Liverpool in 1816 & as yet I'm not sure where he was born though there's a chance it was Newcastle. What I'm trying to find out is where he worked, he seems to have always been a Carver & Gilder & I'd love to know where he did this. The occupation seems to pass down the family & I found Lawrence Bertie/Innkeeper in the census & he also was listed as a Carver & Gilder. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read this, I'm sure I'll discover more when I've had chance to get through all the very interesting info on here, it's all very fascinating & I did find Lawrence Bertie listed as an Inkeeper in 1854 on here. Kind regards everyone, Tracey. (Sorry for the long into!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tsavo Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 Welcome to the site, Tracey. Glad you joined us. Good luck with your search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracey Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 Welcome to the site, Tracey. Glad you joined us. Good luck with your search. Thank you Tsavo, just wish there were more hours in the day to research family history. Work does get in the way! I like your quote, very true. Kind regards, Tracey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardB Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 I knew there was a reason I spent a year researching this listing (with help from Tsavo and Dobberd to get the postings on here) Livery Stables, 32 Union Lane, 1854, Lawrence Bertie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardB Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 Difficult to read, but ... 1841 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardB Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 William Bertie 44 Jane Bertie 45 John Lawrence Bertie 19 Mary Bertie 14 Jane Bertie 5 Norfolk Street, unless you read the image differently. Good Luck, Welcome, Keep us posted etc :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughW Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Some burials... Burials at St Peter’s (now the Anglican Cathedral) BERTIE Elizabeth 13 Oct 1844 inf "Sheffield,Coalpit Lane" Laurence (carrier) BERTIE Elizabeth 29 Apr 1838 1 "Sheffield,Norfolk St" William (gilder) BERTIE George 10 Sep 1833 1 "Sheffield,Norfolk St" Willm (gilder) BERTIE Thomas 25 Dec 1842 inf "Sheffield,Granville St" Lawrence (guilder) [name/date of burial/address/relative(father)] I wonder if ‘carrier’ is a mis-reading of ‘carver’ ? What is the evidence that William died aged 42 ? Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughW Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 :huh: Sheffield Local Register (contemporary digest of stories from local newspapers) 12 March 1852 Lawrence Bertie committed to York for the manslaughter John Drake. Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracey Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 I knew there was a reason I spent a year researching this listing (with help from Tsavo and Dobberd to get the postings on here) Livery Stables, 32 Union Lane, 1854, Lawrence Bertie Hi Richard, thank you for the address of where Lawrence was in 1854. I found him on this site as a beerhouse keeper but didn't realise the address was there too. I'd probably been looking at 2am as I'm spending a lot of time on my Bertie's at the mo. I haven't a clue yet as to where he & his wife Jane Campbell came from. On their marriage details for 1816 it says 'Of Liverpool'. I'm just going to have a look at the info others have kindly added to my message. Kind regards, Tracey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracey Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Sheffield Local Register (contemporary digest of stories from local newspapers) 12 March 1852 Lawrence Bertie committed to York for the manslaughter John Drake. Hugh Thank you for that bit of news Hugh, I hadn't seen that before & for the deaths information, you're very kind. I have a copy of a death cert for William Bertie, died 1842 of inflammation of the liver, something to do with those beerhouses maybe!! Richard, I have that 1841 info & I read it as Norfolk St too, thank you & kind regards, Tracey. PS A remarkable job on finding & listing all those beerhouses etc, I take my hat off to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughW Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 The above date for the committal of Lawrence BERTIE may be wrong, there is some confusion in the newspaper reports. The eventual trial was at the Summer Assizes in York... Sheffield & Rotherham Independent 17 Jul 1852 page 8 column f The longer inquest report (published 20 March?) has little more substantive information about Lawrence. The friend he was trying to persuade to go home is named as John HORNCASTLE with whom he, Bertie, was lodging. Bertie is described s a young man. I don't have access to the 1851 census but perhaps this Lawrence Bertie or John Horncastle could be found to shed more light on these characters. Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracey Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 The above date for the committal of Lawrence BERTIE may be wrong, there is some confusion in the newspaper reports. The eventual trial was at the Summer Assizes in York... Sheffield & Rotherham Independent 17 Jul 1852 page 8 column f The longer inquest report (published 20 March?) has little more substantive information about Lawrence. The friend he was trying to persuade to go home is named as John HORNCASTLE with whom he, Bertie, was lodging. Bertie is described s a young man. I don't have access to the 1851 census but perhaps this Lawrence Bertie or John Horncastle could be found to shed more light on these characters. Hugh Once again Hugh thank you, I really appreciate all the help & information I've been given in a matter of hours of joining this site, I didn't expect it but very happy about it. I'll try to dig a little deeper into this Lawrence Bertie scandal & will post anything I find. Kind regards, Tracey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughW Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 If you search this site for HORNCASTLE you will find that a John Horncastle was landlord of the Royal Oak, Pond Street from c1849-c1862. In 1861 he is described as 'formerly wood turner now publican'. So maybe Lawrence was lodging at the pub. Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracey Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 If you search this site for HORNCASTLE you will find that a John Horncastle was landlord of the Royal Oak, Pond Street from c1849-c1862. In 1861 he is described as 'formerly wood turner now publican'. So maybe Lawrence was lodging at the pub. Hugh Hello Hugh, thank you for that. My daughter & I have recently found William Bertie, (Lawrence's father) Carver & Gilder, in business with a Mr Nicholson in 1834 on Norfolk St so we are getting closer to finding out just when our Bertie's moved to Sheffield as we know William married Jane Campbell in Liverpool in 1816. We think our John Lawrence Bertie must have dropped the 'John' from his name or it was a mistake of the enumerator but we can't find him in 1851, we also believe he was married twice. I do appreciate the help & information you have given. Kind regards, Tracey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardB Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Not entirely sure if this fits the bill, but, here goes 1881 Census Laurence Bertie, Head, 58, Gilder, born Liverpool, Paralysed Sarah, Wife, 40, Liner weaver (Steam), born Barnsley Harriet Ballitchell, Grand-daughter, 14, Linen Weaver (Steam) born Darfield all resident Court 2 9 George Street, Barnsley (South) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracey Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Not entirely sure if this fits the bill, but, here goes 1881 Census Laurence Bertie, Head, 58, Gilder, born Liverpool, Paralysed Sarah, Wife, 40, Liner weaver (Steam), born Barnsley Harriet Ballitchell, Grand-daughter, 14, Linen Weaver (Steam) born Darfield all resident Court 2 9 George Street, Barnsley (South) Hi Richard, thank you, yes I have that one. In 1871 Laurence's wife Sarah is a shopkeeper & they have 3 children with them referred to as boarders, later referred to as grandchildren. Given Sarah's age I believe Laurence was married before. I found a marriage for him for 1841 in Wortley but alas no name for spouse but I would imagine she was called Harriet, Mary or Alice, the names of the grandchildren. Thanks for your interest & help, I'm very glad to have discovered this friendly site. Kind regards, Tracey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardB Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Not entirely sure if this fits the bill, but, here goes 1881 Census Laurence Bertie, Head, 58, Gilder, born Liverpool, Paralysed Sarah, Wife, 40, Liner weaver (Steam), born Barnsley Harriet Ballitchell, Grand-daughter, 14, Linen Weaver (Steam) born Darfield all resident Court 2 9 George Street, Barnsley (South) That will be Harriet B Mitchell then ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardB Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 1861 Census Lawrance Bertie, 34, Head, Carver and guilder and beerhouse keeper (worth looking further into Livery Stables as in 1854 reference), born Liverpool Sarah, 21, Wife, born Liverpool Fanny Jane, 4 months, daughter, born Barnsley (hence latest date 1861 for move to Hallamshire region) Fanny Hawcroft, 52, Mother (has to be Sarah's Mother), Housekeeper, born Ecclesfield Martha Hawcroft, 18, Factory Linen weaver, born Barnsley William Hawcroft, 13, Wife's brother, ap. painter, born Barnsley Agnes Hawcroft, 6, Wife's Sister, scholar, born Barnsley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardB Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Lawrence Bertie born 1823, death registered at Barnsley Jan-Mar 1886 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardB Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Fanny Jane, 4 months, daughter, born Barnsley (hence latest date 1861 for move to Hallamshire region) Fanny Jane died young, death registered Jul-Sep 1865 in Barnsley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardB Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 William BERTIE Carver & gilder of 70 Norfolk Street (White's 1833) William BERTIE Carver & gilder of 28 Norfolk Street (Pigot's 1841) http://www.sheffieldrecordsonline.org.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardB Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Tsavo, please move this to Genealogy thread please. Thanks Muchly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardB Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 I'm sure I'll discover more when I've had chance to get through all the very interesting info on here .... I've posted a large portion of the "stuff" on here and I don't know where any of it is ! I have to ask Tsavo who very kindly points me to my previous posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracey Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 I've posted a large portion of the "stuff" on here and I don't know where any of it is ! I have to ask Tsavo who very kindly points me to my previous posts. Richard, thank you for all this info, I have loads to go on & have found quite a few of my 'Berties' today. I have most of them & on most of the censuses but John Lawrence is hiding out in 1851. Thanks for the info on Fanny (Frances) Jane, very sad how many children died so young back then. Thanks also to Tsavo for pointing you to your last posts! Kind regards, Tracey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardB Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Good Luck, keep us up to date. Tsavo, tremendous resource, good on-line friend, keeps me sane .... ish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now