Mystery Marker

[Stuart0742]

Stumbled across this today (well almost), it was at the side of the path

Location at the side of the River Sheaf at Totley, near to where the railway crosses the river, this could explain the "MR" on the reverse.

X marks the spot where the marker is.

Any ideas?

[DaveH]

Stumbled across this today (well almost), it was at the side of the path

Location at the side of the River Sheaf at Totley, near to where the railway crosses the river, this could explain the "MR" on the reverse.

X marks the spot where the marker is.

Any ideas?

OK,

It's very close to a river and it has the letters MR on it

Is it a mooring point for boats on the river?

Although that river looks a bit too small and too shallow, and that bridge a bit too low to take anything much more than a rowing boat.

So what river is it?

One of the smaller ones, Sheaf, Rivelin, Loxley?

[Stuart0742]

OK,

It's very close to a river and it has the letters MR on it

Is it a mooring point for boats on the river?

Although that river looks a bit too small and too shallow, and that bridge a bit too low to take anything much more than a rowing boat.

So what river is it?

One of the smaller ones, Sheaf, Rivelin, Loxley?

The clue to which river is in my 1st post, to quote "Location at the side of the River Sheaf at Totley"

To be more precise the beginning of the River Sheaf, approximately 100 yds from the confluence of Totley Brook and Old Hay Brook

[syrup]

Stumbled across this today (well almost), it was at the side of the path

Location at the side of the River Sheaf at Totley, near to where the railway crosses the river, this could explain the "MR" on the reverse.

X marks the spot where the marker is.

Any ideas?

Could it mean its a Main River ?

[RichardB]

Could it mean its a Main River ?

MR River ?

Moon River ?? The unknown Andy Williams Sheffield connection ...

[Stuart0742]

Could it mean its a Main River ?

This needs further investigation, as this location is near the site of the old Totley Rolling Mills

[RichardB]

This needs further investigation, as this location is near the site of the old Totley Rolling Mills

Mill Race ?

Mill Runoff ?

Mrs Mills and Lieutenant Pigeon, Mouldy Old Dough (972) ? - no "R" in that ...

[Stuart0742]

This needs further investigation, as this location is near the site of the old Totley Rolling Mills

This area is nearer the site of the Upper Wheel rather than Totley Rolling Mills

[DaveH]

The clue to which river is in my 1st post, to quote "Location at the side of the River Sheaf at Totley"

To be more precise the beginning of the River Sheaf, approximately 100 yds from the confluence of Totley Brook and Old Hay Brook

I know you said it was the Sheaf, but it just looked too neat and tidy, too posh and too small to be the Sheaf.

Then again, if its near its source thats not suprising, most of us are more familiar with it as it passes through town near Queens Road lol

[DaveH]

MR River ?

Moon River ?? The unknown Andy Williams Sheffield connection ...

Andy Williams eh, -

Some of us can remember it from the 1961 film "Breakfast at Tiffany's" starring Audrey Hepburn :rolleyes:

[DaveH]

Mill Race ?

Mill Runoff ?

Mrs Mills and Lieutenant Pigeon, Mouldy Old Dough (972) ? - no "R" in that ...

I think you mean 1972 there Richard.

I can remember Lieutenant Pigeon and Mouldy Old Dough from 1972 but I think 972, either AD or BC, is well before even my time. lol

[syrup]

I know you said it was the Sheaf, but it just looked too neat and tidy, too posh and too small to be the Sheaf.

Then again, if its near its source thats not suprising, most of us are more familiar with it as it passes through town near Queens Road

So are you hinting that MR could stand for Mucky River ?

[RichardB]

So are you hinting that MR could stand for Mucky River ?

It's Muddy Waters - just spelt incorrectly and on the wrong Continent probably ...

[hilldweller]

Stumbled across this today (well almost), it was at the side of the path

Location at the side of the River Sheaf at Totley, near to where the railway crosses the river, this could explain the "MR" on the reverse.

X marks the spot where the marker is.

Any ideas?

In a book about Water Power on the Sheffield Rivers by David Crossley is a part map showing the Midland Railway construction of 1863. This map shows the projected line with something called THE LIMIT OF DEVIATION a fixed distance from each side of the line (in other words forming a wide corridor). I would think that the marker may simply be a marker for the "limit of deviation" and the initials stand for MIDLAND RAILWAY. There is no scale on the part map but the "limits" do seem very wide and could extend from the line to where the marker is found.

HD

[RichardB]

In a book about Water Power on the Sheffield Rivers by David Crossley is a part map showing the Midland Railway construction of 1863. This map shows the projected line with something called THE LIMIT OF DEVIATION a fixed distance from each side of the line (in other words forming a wide corridor). I would think that the marker may simply be a marker for the "limit of deviation" and the initials stand for MIDLAND RAILWAY. There is no scale on the part map but the "limits" do seem very wide and could extend from the line to where the marker is found.

HD

Nice one Hilldweller; I also like to limit my deviation but the pork-pies and the taffetta ball-gown at weekends are my major weaknesses he he

[hilldweller]

In a book about Water Power on the Sheffield Rivers by David Crossley is a part map showing the Midland Railway construction of 1863. This map shows the projected line with something called THE LIMIT OF DEVIATION a fixed distance from each side of the line (in other words forming a wide corridor). I would think that the marker may simply be a marker for the "limit of deviation" and the initials stand for MIDLAND RAILWAY. There is no scale on the part map but the "limits" do seem very wide and could extend from the line to where the marker is found.

HD

I've done a bit more delving into "limits of deviation" and it seems they are a device (still used today) to allow railway building companies to apply for parliamentary approval to build a line and for them to be able to deviate from the proposed centre-line of the tracks without having to go back for further approval. Obviously they would centre the line in the original preferred position but if poor ground or other snags come up they can place the lines anywhere within the limits of deviation. They wouldn't necessarily need to purchase all the land within the deviation but would have the option to purchase if required.

The map I refer to covers the curve of the London main line as it bends around to enter the Bradway Tunnel and from a written clue that the curve is laid to a radius of 4 furlongs 2 chains I have been able to deduce that the limits of deviation are approx 4 chains wide each side of the line e.g. 88 yards. If we assume that the slightly later Totley Tunnel line was built to the same limits then the marker should lie about 88 yards from the centre-line of the tracks. Looking at the largest-scale map that I have I don't think that it's far off that figure. I am of an age when we were taught all about yards, chains, furlongs and miles at school, (22 yards = 1 chain, 10 chains = 1 furlong, 8 furlongs = 1 mile) Wasn't it a good idea to go metric !

HD

[Stuart0742]

I've done a bit more delving into "limits of deviation" and it seems they are a device (still used today) to allow railway building companies to apply for parliamentary approval to build a line and for them to be able to deviate from the proposed centre-line of the tracks without having to go back for further approval. Obviously they would centre the line in the original preferred position but if poor ground or other snags come up they can place the lines anywhere within the limits of deviation. They wouldn't necessarily need to purchase all the land within the deviation but would have the option to purchase if required.

The map I refer to covers the curve of the London main line as it bends around to enter the Bradway Tunnel and from a written clue that the curve is laid to a radius of 4 furlongs 2 chains I have been able to deduce that the limits of deviation are approx 4 chains wide each side of the line e.g. 88 yards. If we assume that the slightly later Totley Tunnel line was built to the same limits then the marker should lie about 88 yards from the centre-line of the tracks. Looking at the largest-scale map that I have I don't think that it's far off that figure. I am of an age when we were taught all about yards, chains, furlongs and miles at school, (22 yards = 1 chain, 10 chains = 1 furlong, 8 furlongs = 1 mile) Wasn't it a good idea to go metric !

HD

That's a great answer HD, the distances as you say fit as well.

So was it common practice to place these markers, if so this marker has done well to remain in situ for 120 odd years.

[SteveHB]

One here

[hilldweller]

One here

Where's here ?

HD

[DaveH]

It's Muddy Waters - just spelt incorrectly and on the wrong Continent probably ...

Muddy Waters ???

What the legendary blues artist ?

I thought that the initials were MR not MW <_<

[DaveH]

Where's here ?

HD

About 88 yards from a Midland Railway track! lol

[Stuart0742]

Here is another one

Marking the boundary of railway property above the north portal of Wingfield Tunnel.

MR stands for Midland Railway. Cast iron boundary markers like this are still quite widespread alongside railways.

© Copyright Alan Murray-Rust and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence

[SteveHB]

Where's here ?

HD

In fact there are two, one each side of the railings if you zoom in.

Lazonby, Penrith, Cumbria.

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[DaveH]

In fact there are two, one each side of the railings if you zoom in.

Lazonby, Penrith, Cumbria.

So where exactly does the Midland Railway go?

This location seems a long way north to me.

Here was mw thinking that the Midland Railway ran from Matlock to Buxton :unsure:

[madannie77]

So where exactly does the Midland Railway go?

This location seems a long way north to me.

Here was mw thinking that the Midland Railway ran from Matlock to Buxton

Must remember to look out for those markers next time I go to Lazonby (not far from Carlisle), one of my favourite spots for filming steam excursions on the Settle & Carlisle line. Something else to sstart looking out for, along with painted adverts, date stones, red phone boxes etc

The Midland Railway main lines were from London St Pancras to Leeds via Sheffield and Manchester via Matlock, but they reached many other parts, eventually making it to such well known areas of the Midlands as Carlisle, Southend, South Wales and Bournemouth

Wikipedia has a good history of the Midland Railway