Skull and crossbones

[jimbob55]

ok guys another question for you. I took the pictures below in the graveyard at Handsworth church. What significance does the skull and crossbones carry to the interred persons?

i also took the following pictures in the Sheffield Cathedral

[RichardB]

ok guys another question for you. I took the pictures below in the graveyard at Handsworth church. What significance does the skull and crossbones carry to the interred persons?

i also took the following pictures in the Sheffield Cathedral

A nicely asked question, I've no idea; relatives of Johnny Depp or Peter Ustinov maybe ? (Not the most serious of answers)

[dunsbyowl1867]

If you are very keen on all things related to funerals/death I would recommend this fine book, I'm sure there is something in there! I'll have a look when I get home.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/English-Way-Death-...l/dp/0709070977

[vox]

I've PM'd you my answer J

[SteveHB]

The skull and cross bones are the sign of death,

with no direct connection to Pirate's

[DaveH]

The skull and cross bones are the sign of death,

with no direct connection to Pirate's

Funny you should say that Steve,

I was going to post an answer that "it means the person buried there is dead" in all seriousness but I didn't because I knew no one would take the answer seriously, - but like you I knew it as a sign of death.

The symbol has been used in connection with pirates but most dead pirates by the nature of their occupation are buried near the coast or harbours if they haven't died and been buried at sea (there are a few pirate graves in Whitby). The chances of finding a pirate grave in Sheffield, about 80 miles from the nearest coast are extremely unlikely. It is, as you say, just a symbol of death.

[RichardB]

I've PM'd something approaching an answer ...

[RichardB]

The Knights Templar also or originally known as the poor knights of christ.

This order was formed between 1112 and 1119 by Hugo De Paynes and St Bernard and was in order to protect those on the pilgrimage on the road from Jabba to Jerusalem, although laterly they spread to a much wider area and became resident in most countries throughout Europe.

With regards to the Skull and Crossbones, another correct comment. It was first used by the Knights Templar 'naval' fleet, which was of an impressive size, and the Skull and Crossbones was flown from the mast, there is an interesting way in which by looking at the flag you could tell the seniority of the highest ranking Knight on the ship, anyone know how?

The Knights Templar were in existence as a fully formed force up until 1312, on Fri 13th September (?) 1312 the French King and Pope decided that the Templars were too powerful and maybe too rich! and also too much of a threat to them, even though ironically enough the Templars supported the pope and his forebearers a great deal, and on that day an organisation that took almost 200 years to build, was brought to it's knees on that one day (Hence the saying that Fri 13th is unlucky! It was for the Knights!!)

On this date all Knights Templar, Sergeants and servants of the Knights were hunted down, tortured, murdered and captured, however, a vast amount of them fled in their fleet of ships, circumnavigated the south of England and came to rest at Kilwinning in Scotland (Mmm Strange those Masons amongst you may be thinking), then they (allegedly) met with William of St Clair (now called Sinclair) where they deposited a great treasure with him.?? The GrandMaster of the Knights at this time was Jaques De Molay, sadly he did not escape and was tortured in France by the Authorities, there is strong evidence to suggest that the Turin Shroud was the shroud that was wrapped around him and not Jesus (The second Messiah book of reference).

The Knights are have alleged to have fought alongside the Scots (Wha hae!) at Bannockburn and some believe that they to a degree they still exist, but much more secretly in fear that what happened to them on that fatefull day in 1312 may happen again.

There were many Knight orders around at this time, correctly the Knights Hospitallers, known also as the Knights of St John? Their insignia is famously worn by medical services (St John Ambulance), the Knights of Malta etc...

[RichardB]

Freemason, the lot of 'em. Master Masons even ...

[vox]

I've PM'd back and forth with Jimbob a couple of times on this subject.

With regards to the Skull and Crossbones, another correct comment. It was first used by the Knights Templar 'naval' fleet, which was of an impressive size, and the Skull and Crossbones was flown from the mast, there is an interesting way in which by looking at the flag you could tell the seniority of the highest ranking Knight on the ship, anyone know how?

An educated guess would be that the position of the skull, on or above the bones, may be the answer.

-----------

The Skull & Xbones was sometimes used to mark the mass graves of plague victims (allegedly)

The remains of the Knights Templar are said to have been the first "Pirates" Given the flags used on the Templars ships, their massive fleet in the 13th century and that they "joined up with" or even possibly became the "Maltese Knights, who were well known for acts of what could be considered Piracy. It doesn't take much of a side step to accept that this could have given rise to the "Jolly Rodger" pirate image.

I think I've read in the past that there's no documented evidence that any "well known" pirate figures ever used the Jolly Rodger. It would seem reasonable that, as they were hunted by the authorities, and faced execution for their deeds, any sensible pirate would fly anything rather than a Jolly Rodger. :o

[jimbob55]

Pope John Paul II's body was interred in three caskets. The triple caskets reflect longstanding tradition for the burial of popes. The innermost casket--the one in which his body lay during his funeral--was made of cypress wood. That casket was placed inside a second casket made of zinc (traditionally, lead was used), presumably to seal the body from the ravages of insects. The third, outermost casket was made of walnut wood (the traditional wood was elm).

The second casket bears a skull and crossbones, along with John Paul's regnal dates. In Christian iconography the skull and crossbones symbolize death, but they are also a symbol of Adam, the first man, who, according to Christian legend was buried at Golgotha, directly underneath the place where Jesus Christ was crucified. That is because Christians believe that Christ is the new Adam, whose death atoned for Adam's sin and who represents a new template for humanity. Just as Christ conquered death in his resurrection, so will all Christians on the last day. Many crucifixes and paintings of the Crucifixion depict Adam's skull underneath the cross of Christ.

[jimbob55]

pope pious xi coffin

pope john pauls coffin

[vox]

Freemason, the lot of 'em. Master Masons even ...

When I wanted a garden wall building I couldn't find a single Freemason. They all wanted to charge. he he

[jimbob55]

Thanks Vox for nudging me toward the info.

But i dont think we,re done yet!