Robin Hood, a local lad or a myth?

[Bayleaf]

The following article first appeared in the Transactions of the Hunter Archaeological Society, Volume 2, p. 201 and is reproduced here by kind permission of the Society.

( http://www.shef.ac.uk/archaeology/hunter/index.html )

Robin Hood's Bower in Loxley

BY S. O. ADDY, M.A.

A tradition is recorded in 1637 that Robin Hood was born in Loxley Firth. The passage in Harrison's Survey of that year is as follows:

Imprimis Great Haggas Croft (pasture) lying near Robin Hood's Bower & is invironed with 'Loxley Firth & Cont. 1-2-27

Item little Haggas Croft (pasture) - wherein is ye foundacion of an house or Cottage where Robin Hood was borne this piece is Compassed about with Loxley Firth & Cont. 00-2-13

Item Bower wood lying betweene Loxley firth East & ye lands of Mr Eyre in part west & Cont. 4-1-5

Item Bower field (arable) lying betweene ye last piece East & ye lands of Mr Eyre North & west & Loxley firth South & Cont.' 2-1- 5

Ritson, who edited the Robin Hood ballads, says he was born at Locksly, in Nottinghamshire, and one of the ballads has it thus:

In Locksly town, in merry Nottinghamshire, In merry sweet Locksly town,

There bold Robin Hood he was born and bred, Bold Robin of famous renown.

Unfortunately, however, there is no such town as Locksly in Nottinghamshire. Locksley was the name of a` companion of Robin Hood, as we see in another ballad:

I have heard talk of Robin Hood, Derry down, derry down,

And of brave Little John;

Of fryer Tuck and Will Scarlet, Loxely, and maid Marion.

We need not stay to consider whether Robin Hood was born in Nottinghamshire or Hallamshire, for he never lived in the flesh. He belongs to mythology and romance, not to history.

The point of interest in Harrison's Survey lies not in the statement Robin Hood was born in Loxley, but in the evident long continuance there of a ceremony associated with his name. I say the long continuance, because the mention of such places as Bower Wood, and Bower Field in connexion with Robin Hood's Bower shows that such a fabric had long existed there.

A new bower may have been erected every summer, but here at any rate we seem to have a permanent site. We learn from old churchwardens' accounts that Robin Hood's Bower was a booth erected for the reception of him and his companions [1] when, as every summer came round, they played the King Game, or Summer Game.

The bower was probably a tent or booth in which the actors dressed, as in the theatres of ancient Greece, and in which the man representing Robin Hood, or the King of May, put on his huge garland of leaves and flowers.

Old churchwardens' accounts often mention the coats, caps, and other things which the parish provided for Robin Hood, Little John, and Maid Marion, when they played the Summer Game.

Bardsley, in his English Surnames, mentions a Thomas Robynhod, living in 1388. He may have derived his name from the fact of his having acted Robin Hood in the May Game.

Robin Hood's Bower was usually set up in the churchyard [2], but at Loxley there was no church, and it was erected in the forest.

At Wistowe in 1469 the Summer Game was played in part of a barn called the Summer House, adjoining the churchyard.[3]

At Ecclesfield, as late as 1792, it was called the Summer Hall, and on the 8th of February that year a, Scotch bagpiper died in this building; hence it seem have been a structure of a more permanent kind than a tent.[4]

The Summer Game, so far as we know, was not a drama with a plot, but a ceremony. The ceremony, no doubt in a worn-down shape, is still performed at Castleton, in Derbyshire, on the 29th of May, and I have published a long account of it in Folklore, vol. xii. The performances were accompanied by much boisterous merriment and licence.

Kuhn compared Robin Hood with Odin, and we must remember that "Deep Hood'' was a favourite name of that divinity, on account of his travelling in disguise, and with him Vigfusson also asks us to compare Robin Hood.

The name Scathelocke, afterwards changed to Scarlet, one of Robin's companions, has a heathenish sound. It makes us think of Loki the evil giant-god of the North, and of Scathi who, according to the Ynglinga Saga, was Odin's wife.

I have not been able to find Scathelocke either as a personal name or a place-name, and there seems no doubt that it is mythological. It should be said that there is an Anglo-Saxon word scatha, meaning one who does harm.

It seems as if, long after the introduction of Christianity, the old divinities, who were only Gods in the likeness of men, were not entirely driven out of popular memory, but lingered in such places as Loxley Firth, and were represented by actors at the summer festival.

Notes

[1] “Payde for setting up Robin Hoode’s bowere, xviijd” (18 pence) – Churchwardens’ accounts of St. Helen’s, Abingdon, 1566 in Hone’s Table Book, 1827,i. Pp.482, 486

[2] Hone’s Every-day Book 1826, i. P.686

[3] For the reference and for many other details about the king of May, see the writer’s Church and Manor, 1913, pp.336-9

[4] See An old Ecclesfield Diary ed. By Thomas Winder, Sheffield, 1921, p20

[RichardB]

Excellent read; enjoyed that. Thank you muchly.

What links the above and Pink Floyd then ?

[R0BIN]

Excellent read; enjoyed that. Thank you muchly.

What links the above and Pink Floyd then ?

Hi, I'm new here and although I cannot help with Pink Floyd I may be able to help with Robin Hood for whom a pardon has been found at York at the time of the Peasants Revolt. Little is known about him and of course the legend which has fallen prey to the imagination has become greatly distorted not least by Nottingham and Hollywood. He appears to be connected with Wadsley and it was the Wadsley family who owned Loxley Common and Loxley Chase where there was a deer park and fletchers (arrow-makers). The Sloane MS lodged in the British Museum records that Robin had two bows at Loxley and of course there is the famous antiquarian Roger Dodsworth who recorded Robin's connection with Loxley and unlike most antiquarians of the day he gave his sources. Then of course there was Harrison who surveyed the grounds of Little Haggis Croft also.

Any questions and comments appreciated especially if anyone can help with the history of Wadsley and the Dore family. Thank you.

http://robinhode.webs.com/

[History dude]

There are several things which are connected with Robin Hood that have helped build up the legend. Firstly an "outlaw" is a person who is not protected by the law as they broke rules in reguard to it. It wasn't too diffcult to do as you simply need not turn up to a court, even if you had done nothing wrong and say failed to give witness to a property transaction.

Second the Norman Forrest Laws were harsh, it ended the old Roman idea that "game" belonged to the man that killed it. So anybody hunting deer without permission of the monarch risked death.

Thirdly their are numerous ballards and tales tell of a notorious thief and his gang that stole from everyone and killed them. They showed no mercy (except once) and never gave to the poor what they stole. They seemed to hang around the Barnsdale area. The leader was Robin Hood. Friar Tuck was probably a nickname of an expelled Friar as the "tuck" was a bag used by friars.

The Sheriff of Nottingham was the good guy, he was supposed to protect you from bandits such as Robin, but he didn't have enough men to do the task. Maid Marrion seems to be based on the Mary of Jesus fame and therefore was never a person in this context.

The whole area of Nottinghamshire has only very recent references to places names connected to Robin Hood and so can be ruled as the source of any such person real or made up. The Major Oak is far too young to have been around in the 14th Century or would have only been a very small tree at that time at the most. So any Robin Hood would not have used it at all, or even noticed it!

Lastly back in the 14th Century Nottingham would have been called Snottingham, named after the village linked to a chap with a very runny nose yes really! The 'S' was dropped by the Normans for obvious reasons

If I remember the tale right Robin was betrayed by a bunch of nuns and killed. It wasn't uncommon for thieves to hang around nuns as the nuns were often offering sexual services for money and may have recieved stolen goods from Robin. In any case Robin would have need a place to stay for food and lodging, as living in a forrest is damp, cold and horrible, except in the hight of summer, but even then if you are stealing money you don't rough it!

To conclude I think there could have been a Robin Hood gang living in South Yorkshire, but you wouldn't want to meet them!

[R0BIN]

There are several things which are connected with Robin Hood that have helped build up the legend. Firstly an "outlaw" is a person who is not protected by the law as they broke rules in reguard to it. It wasn't too diffcult to do as you simply need not turn up to a court, even if you had done nothing wrong and say failed to give witness to a property transaction.

Second the Norman Forrest Laws were harsh, it ended the old Roman idea that "game" belonged to the man that killed it. So anybody hunting deer without permission of the monarch risked death.

Thirdly their are numerous ballards and tales tell of a notorious thief and his gang that stole from everyone and killed them. They showed no mercy (except once) and never gave to the poor what they stole. They seemed to hang around the Barnsdale area. The leader was Robin Hood. Friar Tuck was probably a nickname of an expelled Friar as the "tuck" was a bag used by friars.

The Sheriff of Nottingham was the good guy, he was supposed to protect you from bandits such as Robin, but he didn't have enough men to do the task. Maid Marrion seems to be based on the Mary of Jesus fame and therefore was never a person in this context.

The whole area of Nottinghamshire has only very recent references to places names connected to Robin Hood and so can be ruled as the source of any such person real or made up. The Major Oak is far too young to have been around in the 14th Century or would have only been a very small tree at that time at the most. So any Robin Hood would not have used it at all, or even noticed it!

Lastly back in the 14th Century Nottingham would have been called Snottingham, named after the village linked to a chap with a very runny nose yes really! The 'S' was dropped by the Normans for obvious reasons

If I remember the tale right Robin was betrayed by a bunch of nuns and killed. It wasn't uncommon for thieves to hang around nuns as the nuns were often offering sexual services for money and may have recieved stolen goods from Robin. In any case Robin would have need a place to stay for food and lodging, as living in a forrest is damp, cold and horrible, except in the hight of summer, but even then if you are stealing money you don't rough it!

To conclude I think there could have been a Robin Hood gang living in South Yorkshire, but you wouldn't want to meet them!

Snot meant Wise and Snottingham meant the "home of the wise."

"Before it was modified by Norman influence the name had several forms, e.g. Snothryngham, Snottingaham, Snottingham—but Snotengaham was the earliest. This ending “ham” is akin to the word home, and is of Anglo-Saxon origin. It tells us of a people who came to this country—not, as the Romans did, to exploit—but to colonise and to make for themselves a home. It is not at all unlikely that Snottingham was the home of an Anglian family—Snot (the wise) by name. Thus with the possessive “ing” the whole word means “The home of Snot.”

http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/swinnerton1910/chapter1.htm

I prefer the other dictionary definition

Snot

(n.) A mean, insignificant fellow or "a person regarded as arrogant and annoying."

[History dude]

My dictionary says that it was used in Old English for the same meaning. So I think he was the man with the runny nose

Believe me they were worse names in England at the time when places and personal surnames where becoming fixed, most of which I can't actually put on display on here. Put it this way the actress Sandra Bullock would probably change her name if she knew what her surname could mean

Most of these surnames have become obselete. My favourite being Robert C********* (each star missing word) who can be found in the West Riding Poll Tax 1379. To help you piece his surname together, his friends clearly thought he was too well educated and made everyone know so.

[R0BIN]

My dictionary says that it was used in Old English for the same meaning. So I think he was the man with the runny nose

Believe me they were worse names in England at the time when places and personal surnames where becoming fixed, most of which I can't actually put on display on here. Put it this way the actress Sandra Bullock would probably change her name if she knew what her surname could mean

Most of these surnames have become obselete. My favourite being Robert C********* (each star missing word) who can be found in the West Riding Poll Tax 1379. To help you piece his surname together, his friends clearly thought he was too well educated and made everyone know so.

We all know what snot is and it isn't a person. When it comes to people it means

"Snot Snot noun [ Anglo-Saxon snot ; akin to Dutch snot , LG. snotte , Danish snot , and to English snout . See Snout .]

1. Mucus secreted in, or discharged from, the nose. [ Low]

2. A mean, insignificant fellow. [ Low]"

http://www.encyclo.co.uk/webster/S/134

[vox]

Hi, I'm new here and although I cannot help with Pink Floyd I may be able to help with Robin Hood for whom a pardon has been found at York at the time of the Peasants Revolt. Little is known about him and of course the legend which has fallen prey to the imagination has become greatly distorted not least by Nottingham and Hollywood. He appears to be connected with Wadsley and it was the Wadsley family who owned Loxley Common and Loxley Chase where there was a deer park and fletchers (arrow-makers). The Sloane MS lodged in the British Museum records that Robin had two bows at Loxley and of course there is the famous antiquarian Roger Dodsworth who recorded Robin's connection with Loxley and unlike most antiquarians of the day he gave his sources. Then of course there was Harrison who surveyed the grounds of Little Haggis Croft also.

Any questions and comments appreciated especially if anyone can help with the history of Wadsley and the Dore family. Thank you.

http://robinhode.webs.com/

Read through your site with interest Robin.

Thanks very much.

[R0BIN]

Read through your site with interest Robin.

Thanks very much.

Thank you vox. :)

[vox]

Forgot to mention

Having studied all the evidence in great detail, I'm afraid I have to side with the opinion that Robin Hood was a baggage handler at Doncaster Airport.

[madannie77]

Forgot to mention

Having studied all the evidence in great detail, I'm afraid I have to side with the opinion that Robin Hood was a baggage handler at Doncaster Airport.

That seems unlikely: why would an airport be named after a mere baggage handler? :)

[R0BIN]

Forgot to mention

Having studied all the evidence in great detail, I'm afraid I have to side with the opinion that Robin Hood was a baggage handler at Doncaster Airport.

I'm sure he was a "baggage handler." It's in the right location and the planes would have been the "London Plane Trees." :P

[DaveH]

There are several things which are connected with Robin Hood that have helped build up the legend. Firstly an "outlaw" is a person who is not protected by the law as they broke rules in reguard to it. It wasn't too diffcult to do as you simply need not turn up to a court, even if you had done nothing wrong and say failed to give witness to a property transaction.

Second the Norman Forrest Laws were harsh, it ended the old Roman idea that "game" belonged to the man that killed it. So anybody hunting deer without permission of the monarch risked death.

Thirdly their are numerous ballards and tales tell of a notorious thief and his gang that stole from everyone and killed them. They showed no mercy (except once) and never gave to the poor what they stole. They seemed to hang around the Barnsdale area. The leader was Robin Hood.

If I remember the tale right Robin was betrayed by a bunch of nuns and killed. It wasn't uncommon for thieves to hang around nuns as the nuns were often offering sexual services for money and may have recieved stolen goods from Robin. In any case Robin would have need a place to stay for food and lodging, as living in a forrest is damp, cold and horrible, except in the hight of summer, but even then if you are stealing money you don't rough it!

To conclude I think there could have been a Robin Hood gang living in South Yorkshire, but you wouldn't want to meet them!

He sounds a most unpleasant character.

But as everyone now seems to be quoting bits of the dictionary to define "Snot" here is a new dictionary take on his name "Robin Hood"

ROBIN (slang) a shortened form of the word robbing, a verb meaning to steal.

HOOD (American slang) a slang term from 1920's-30's USA cities such as Chicago and New York used to indicate a gangster

So "Robin Hood" in my book translates into "Theiving Gangster", how apt and fitting is that! ;-)

[R0BIN]

He sounds a most unpleasant character.

But as everyone now seems to be quoting bits of the dictionary to define "Snot" here is a new dictionary take on his name "Robin Hood"

ROBIN (slang) a shortened form of the word robbing, a verb meaning to steal.

HOOD (American slang) a slang term from 1920's-30's USA cities such as Chicago and New York used to indicate a gangster

So "Robin Hood" in my book translates into "Theiving Gangster", how apt and fitting is that!

You mean like rob-in-hood? (robber-in-hood)

http://robinhode.webs.com/alegendisborn.htm

[SteveHB]

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/svTvlhLjMq0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:)

[R0BIN]

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/svTvlhLjMq0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Richard Rutherford Moore is a Sheffield man.

[SteveHB]

Richard Rutherford Moore is a Sheffield man.

Thanks R0BIN, I never knew that.

More here by the man himself .. www.robinhood.ltd.uk

[R0BIN]

Thanks R0BIN, I never knew that.

More here by the man himself .. www.robinhood.ltd.uk

I know him. There is an article of mine on there somewhere.

[History dude]

My Penguin English Dictionary lists Snot as Old English for nasal mucus spelt "gesnot". It would be impossible to determine how a person got that name, but in my experiance the lowest form of abuse is more likely the cause of it. Actually it was probably not abuse, in the same way Brown just ment their colour. Also we know spelling wasn't standard, in Doomsday Book they spelt "Shefald" wrong (Escafeld) so it was probably just "snot" or was said in that way.

[R0BIN]

My Penguin English Dictionary lists Snot as Old English for nasal mucus spelt "gesnot". It would be impossible to determine how a person got that name, but in my experiance the lowest form of abuse is more likely the cause of it. Actually it was probably not abuse, in the same way Brown just ment their colour. Also we know spelling wasn't standard, in Doomsday Book they spelt "Shefald" wrong (Escafeld) so it was probably just "snot" or was said in that way.

So by that logic you think Mr. Bottom is a reference to his rear-end when in reality he lived in the valley bottom and Mr. Sidebottom lived on the hillside. And you think Mr. Crookes was a criminal?

You were wrong about other things as well, but not to worry.

[History dude]

Robin Now your being Mr Silly lol

[DaveH]

Robin Now your being Mr Silly

Mr. Silly!!!! <_<

[Bayleaf]

Mr. Silly!!!!

Nah, doesn't look a bit like Robin! :blink:

[dunsbyowl1867]

Nah, doesn't look a bit like Robin!

What about Dennis Moore?

[Bayleaf]

What about Dennis Moore?

Ah, now there was a hero...;-)