Andrew Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 I'm sure that they have been there for years, but I have only just noticed two coats of arms on the west side of the City Hall. They both seem to allude to the Royal Coat of Arms - but are not. I can pickout lions, unicorns, dragons, harp, thistle, ER etc but neither is the royal Coat of Arms - and who is MR? I can find nothing in Pevsner, Wikiwhatnot, the web. I'm sure it's obvious. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viners Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 The two unicorns and red lion one might be a reference to Mary Queen of Scots, hence MR. It is generally like a coat of arms of Scotland (I am no expert) and there are a couple other things that suggest Scotland such as a white cross of St Andrew and a thistle. There is a similar coat of arms on here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_Queen_of_Scots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viners Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 The top one might be more a reference to Queen Elizabeth I than Queen Elizabeth II. I Googled that Semper Eadem (Always the same) was the motto of the first Queen Elizabeth: https://www.elizabethi.org/contents/profile/arms.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponytail Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 Yes, the 2 unicorn one is Mary Queen of Scots The one with the Lion was by Alfred and WF Tory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponytail Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 Yes Viners I agree it's Elizabeth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponytail Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 Does anybody know the reason why these coat of arms were chosen. Mary Queen of Scots and Elizabeth I seem strange to appear together on a building that has no connection to either of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysanderix Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Wasn’t Mary imprisoned, for years ,in Sheffield under the care of the countries then richest man…the Earl of Shrewsbury in Sheffield Castle and Manor House? As for Elizabeth ,I have no suggestion other than that it was she who ordered Mary to be imprisoned and later executed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmund Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 The answer given by the newspapers in 1932 to the question, was that the initials referred to the infant Princess Elizabeth (now our Queen) and Princess Mary (daughter of George V). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted August 31, 2022 Author Share Posted August 31, 2022 Thank you for your replies - there are some interesting theories but my preference is for Edmund's. Ties in with the opening date. Who opened it? ER - Elizabeth "Regina" - not in 1932 ... MR - Mary d. of George V was never "Regina" - How about Margaret Rose? But that doesn't fit with Elizabeth Alexandra Mary. We're approaching the answer but I'm not sure that we have got there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted August 31, 2022 Author Share Posted August 31, 2022 Wikipedia gives this as Mary's (d.of George V) Coat of Arms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewanarm Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Article in the Sheffield Star in 2021 seems to offer an explanation https://www.thestar.co.uk/heritage-and-retro/retro/hidden-royal-joke-about-famous-sheffield-prisoner-mary-queen-of-scots-at-city-hall-3233506 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponytail Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 9Doing a bit of searching, sorry not sure how to do the link. There is an article in The Star dated 12 May 2021. David Templeman of Friends of Manor Lodge and colleague John Clark recounts the architect E Vincent Harris had the idea as a joke. As they never met in life he thought if their ghosts ever came to Sheffield having separate doors would be a way of keeping them apart. Queen Elizabeth I door on the left and Mary Queen of Scots on the right and a smaller door between them with the coat of arms of the Earl of Shrewsbury, who was given the task of "imprisoning" Mary. His door has an arrow slot to keep them apart just in case. Seems a very elaborate and expensive joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponytail Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Thank you Ewanarm you're obviously more experienced than me at this link thing. 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmund Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 The "answer" given in 1932 seems to be inaccurate guesswork on the part of the editor of the Telegraph. In the Telegraph's Supplement detailing the opening of the City Hall dated 22nd September, the west door is described as having the coats of arms of Elizabeth I, Mary Queen of Scots and the Earl of Shrewsbury carved in stone and gilded. In addition these coats of arms are to be found in lunettes (half moon shaped areas) in the corridor surrounding the Oval Hall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponytail Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 1 minute ago, Edmund said: The "answer" given in 1932 seems to be inaccurate guesswork on the part of the editor of the Telegraph. In the Telegraph's Supplement detailing the opening of the City Hall dated 22nd September, the west door is described as having the coats of arms of Elizabeth I, Mary Queen of Scots and the Earl of Shrewsbury carved in stone and gilded. In addition these coats of arms are to be found in lunettes (half moon shaped areas) in the corridor surrounding the Oval Hall. Just shows you can go into a building for years and never notice some things. Need to be more aware. 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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