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Unitedite Returns

Once Upon a Time - When We Could Actually Make Things

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We were actually pretty damn good at it:-

Certainly, back in 1919, we were actually pretty damn good at it:-

W K and C Peace-Advertisement-1919-001.JPG

W K and C Peace-Advertisement-1919-002.JPG

Thomas Firth and Sons Limited-Advertisement-1919.JPG

Thomas Ward Limited-Advertisement-1919.JPG

Walter and Frank Brown Limited-Advertisement-1919.JPG

Arthur Balfour and Company-Advertisement-1919.JPG

John Batt and Company Limited-Advertisement-1919.JPG

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What a fantastic page or two of nostalgia! 

"Tinmen's snips"? You don't meet those every day.

As for "projectiles", they sound more worrying.

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24 minutes ago, Athy said:

As for "projectiles", they sound more worrying.

We were especially good at making those.

So good in-fact, that ours' could be fired twice.

A good selling point I suppose, if you weren't a good shot, and if you missed first time, you could always have another go! lol

Good business acumen that - very popular in Yorkshire. Perhaps you could even have your name and address inscribed. 'If found, please return to ?, NO REWARD'.

Hadfield's Steel Foundry Co. Ltd-1887 Exhibition-Cover.JPG

Hadfield's Steel Foundry Co. Ltd-1887 Exhibition-Pg.13.JPG

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Blimey, so they really were the heads for shells - I had thought that they were some sort of tool.

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Latterly,Sheffield's industrialists tended to sit on their laurels with many expecting the world to "take it or leave it". They frequently invested too little and often too late in modern plant and equipment with Arthur Balfour, for one, praising in its sales literature the "special " qualities of its high speed steel bars produced in a museum worthy rope driven rolling mill at is subsidiary C ( Cutty) Meadows. This use of ancient equipment was not unusual ,with many companies priding themselves on  the age of its facilities and that they had never received any Marshall Aid, post War. Mergers happened ,but often too late to rationalise production and administration... with that between Darwins and Balfours a prize example of "marrying in haste".When the cold wind of real competition came to our shores in 1973 too often we found we weren't competitive or our quality was inferior to what our European competitors were offering.I speak with some feeling as a sometime Export Director for a small but progressive steel company which was merged, abused by its new owners and eventually closed.

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I think one of the city's steelworks was still using a fleet of steam lorries up till 1970. Damn, I wish I had seen them at work.

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4 minutes ago, Athy said:

I think one of the city's steelworks was still using a fleet of steam lorries up till 1970. Damn, I wish I had seen them at work.

When i first got my HGV Licence i drove for Sid Harrison's at Tinsley and he had Steam Lorries in the Yard that he took to shows.

i think he had steam cranes as well but i'm not sure about them.

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31 minutes ago, Athy said:

I think one of the city's steelworks was still using a fleet of steam lorries up till 1970. Damn, I wish I had seen them at work.

Brown Bayleys certainly used steam lorries long after they were replaced elsewhere. They were definitely still at work in the 1960s when my grandfather worked there.

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I have found a photo on the internet of one loaded with scrap metal at a Sheffield works, the photo is dated as 1965 but the yard is not named, but I guess it would be that one.

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2 hours ago, Athy said:

I think one of the city's steelworks was still using a fleet of steam lorries up till 1970. Damn, I wish I had seen them at work.

The only steam lorries I saw working for a living in and  around Sheffield were the ones belonging to Stones brewery. That would be in the late 1940s.  W/E.

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3 hours ago, madannie77 said:

Brown Bayleys certainly used steam lorries long after they were replaced elsewhere. They were definitely still at work in the 1960s when my grandfather worked there.

I remember Brown Bayley's steam wagons still hard at work in the 60's. Here is a picture of one in 1970, I think this one came out of service in '66, at any rate it was restored by Brown Bayley's in that year, afterwards appearing in the Lord Mayors Show. There was at least one still working in 1970    --------       (c) Picture Sheffield     ---------     http://picturesheffield.com/frontend.php?keywords=Ref_No_increment;EQUALS;u08745&pos=11&action=zoom&id=106701

brown_bayley_steam_lorry_3rd_march_1970.jpg

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syrup...Sid Harrison, if I remember correctly had a fleet of red liveried Scammell's.

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3 hours ago, boginspro said:

I remember Brown Bayley's steam wagons still hard at work in the 60's. Here is a picture of one in 1970, I think this one came out of service in '66, at any rate it was restored by Brown Bayley's in that year, afterwards appearing in the Lord Mayors Show. There was at least one still working in 1970    --------       (c) Picture Sheffield     ---------     http://picturesheffield.com/frontend.php?keywords=Ref_No_increment;EQUALS;u08745&pos=11&action=zoom&id=106701

brown_bayley_steam_lorry_3rd_march_1970.jpg

A Sentinel, and a rather small model. Unless it's a trick of the camera, it doesn't appear to have any windows (which most Sentinels of that age would have had).

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3 hours ago, lysander said:

syrup...Sid Harrison, if I remember correctly had a fleet of red liveried Scammell's.

Had they had steam waggons before that, though? I don't think Scammell ever made steamers.

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It is not really surprising that steam propelled road vehicles remained in use for certain applications for as long as they did. Steam propelled locomotives remained in use on our industrial railway network until well into the 1970's, and arguably for a decade after their withdrawal from service by British Railways in 1968.

For certain specific applications, steam propulsion remained well suited to the those tasks for which it had originally been acquired, and for as long as operating costs remained below those of any replacement costs, then 'if it's not broken, why fix it?' Their withdrawal probably came about when those financial considerations could longer be balanced.

Brown Baileys' fleet of Sentinel Steam Lorries were probably ideally suited for the carriage of heavy castings and whilst not 'fleet of foot', they probably remained ideal for internal transport applications within a large steel works, spread over many acres, and also for short haul distribution, in and around the Brightside Area.

As for the Sentinel Steam Lorry portrayed here. I think that it is most likely a 'Standard' Type, six-ton flat bodied unit, with two-cylinder, double-acting engine and vertical boiler. A total of 3,746 were built, between 1905 and 1923, when the 'Super Sentinel' type was introduced. They were generally supplied with a very basic, windowless cab. The first units were built at Glasgow, until production was switched to Shrewsbury in 1915.

Post-script: Got some images of Sid Harrison's Scammell Fleet somewhere. Will try to did them out. If I remember rightly, he also had a couple of industrial steam locomotives stored in his yard once upon a time. I remember passing these red liveried lorries regularly when they were labouring up the long hill on the M1 south-bound, just before you came to Tibshelf Services.

 

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16 minutes ago, Unitedite Returns said:

It is not really surprising that steam propelled road vehicles remained in use for certain applications for as long as they did.

 

Quite so - if your factory's in the middle of a coalfield and your lorry burns coal, it does seem logical. Am I right in thinking that the fleet lasted until the end of Brown Bayley's works?

Steamers apparently retained their popularity as brewers' drays long after they had largely been superseded by internal-combustion lorries in other spheres of transport.

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I visited Brown Bayley's shortly before closure and can't remember seeing any .

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1 hour ago, Athy said:

Quite so - if your factory's in the middle of a coalfield and your lorry burns coal, it does seem logical. Am I right in thinking that the fleet lasted until the end of Brown Bayley's works?

Steamers apparently retained their popularity as brewers' drays long after they had largely been superseded by internal-combustion lorries in other spheres of transport.

As to exactly when Brown Bayleys withdrew their last steam lorry from 'active service', I don't know exactly, but there are certainly photographs in existence of Lorry No. 6, Registration No. AW 2964, taking part in the Lord Mayor's Parade, as late as 1967, although, as to whether it was still in 'active service', or just retained for publicity purposes by then, I don't know. Certainly, Lorry No. 9, was still in 'active service' in 1963, but not carrying registration plates, so probably, just for internal use. Then again, steam locomotive No.4, MW454/1894, was still in 'active service' at Brown Bayleys Steels Limited in 1963, and was still in existence as late as 1969.

As for the steam-propelled brewery drays, I suspect that their retention was probably more for publicity and marketing reasons than for sheer purposes of practicality.

 

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14 hours ago, Athy said:

A Sentinel, and a rather small model. Unless it's a trick of the camera, it doesn't appear to have any windows (which most Sentinels of that age would have had).

I think they were standard Sentinel undertype or something very close and from memory I believe they sometimes had a trailer attached. I don't think any of the Brown Bayley ones had windows, number 6 was built in 1917 . Here is a garage full.

brown_bayleys_steam_wagons.png

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Phewaaaarrr! Steam porn!!!

Are any of them preserved?

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Doing a bit of off-the-cuff research, I find that Brown Bayleys' No. 6, Registration No. AW 2964 is now preserved in Glasgow. Link to a copy of their well researched information sheet on No.6 is attached. So obviously, one of the Glasgow built units it seems.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?ei=xJFHWsjPJ4LIgAaRp57oBw&q=glasgow+museum+steam+lorry&oq=glasgow+museum+steam+lorry&gs_l=psy-ab.12...4258.14159.0.17000.26.26.0.0.0.0.184.3801.0j26.26.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.25.3655...0j46j0i131i67k1j0i67k1j0i131k1j0i46k1j0i46i67k1j46i67k1j0i22i30k1j33i22i29i30k1j33i21k1j33i160k1.0.cAoyoBP1TJU

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12 minutes ago, boginspro said:

I think they were standard Sentinel undertype or something very close and from memory I believe they sometimes had a trailer attached. I don't think any of the Brown Bayley ones had windows, number 6 was built in 1917 . Here is a garage full.

Now that is interesting. Only one of the four waggons depicted in full is carrying registration plates and licensed to operate on the public highway, which suggests that most were acquired predominantly for internal use.

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17 hours ago, lysander said:

syrup...Sid Harrison, if I remember correctly had a fleet of red liveried Scammell's.

That's correct and at least one of them was pre-war, it was a good place to start your HGV career due to the fact a lot of companies used to say no experience no job,Sid wasn't that fussy so after driving his ancient Scammells future employers then said if you can drive his trucks you can drive anything we've got.

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Lovely. I do hope it's still in working order and not just "stuffed and mounted".

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