WW1 Archaeology & Poetry of 'Hill 60' at Redmires

[dunsbyowl1867]

Recently featured in "Open country" on Radio 4

http://members.tripod.com/deepoceanfish2-i...hores/id25.html

[syrup]

Recently featured in "Open country" on Radio 4

http://members.tripod.com/deepoceanfish2-i...hores/id25.html

Nice find excelent site.

[Bayleaf]

You'll have seen the trench photos on the site, but anyone know what this is?It's on the same site, but on the other side of the hill. Whereas the trenches were dug down, these stand proud of the surface. So far no-one's worked out what they could be!

[Guest pfn]

Hi Bayleaf,

Do we know of these ground features are actually related to the 12th Battalion training at Redmires?

If so, the opposite of trenches are earthworks - the banking up of earth to form a defensive wall. Variations of which have been used from at least the Iron Age onwards. (Saxons, Normans, Romans etc) Whether it was training for that perhaps? The circular areas could be defensive ditches placed around a strongpoint. (observation post, artillery position, machine gun emplacement etc) joined up by a meandering set of longer trenches. Not all WWI trenches were straight and angular. Many were dug under fire and would be dug at all sorts of angles and curves back and forth to give maximum cover from the firing direction, especially if they were being dug towards the enemy lines.

The fact the layout in the aerial photo may not make complete sense could be because it was just that, a practise and training area.

Just a thought anyway.

[Bayleaf]

Hi pfn

The archaeologists working on the site are convinced they are part of the WW1 training. One thought is that they were for training in defence where the ground was unsuitable for trenches, bearing in mind the Battalion went to Egypt after training, before going to France. But that's just a guess. They could be the remains of parapets, but there's no trace of associated trenches, and everywhere else on the site the parapets have disappeared leaving traces of the trenches. I can't quote any measurements, but the circular features aren't very big, possibly would hold a fixed machine gun but nothing bigger I would have thought.

[Guest pfn]

I'm not sure either then. It would seem a waste of time and energy carrying out training for digging trenches where there was no earth etc. Because although it may seem a strange choice thay they were next sent to Egypt, they were always destined for the Western Front.

I wonder if any Sheffield museum or library local study archives have more detail as to what was built and done at Redmires?

It wouldnt be something silly like latrines etc? The building work at Redmires was being carried out by Sheffield Corporation, but when the recruits got there it was all far from finished, and much of the work was then done by the recruits. Among which they had to build huts, dig foundations, access roads etc.

[Guest pfn]

I was reading through the Redmires section in my copy of the 12th Battalion history book last night. It mentions digging trenches, laying roads and paths, helping to build some of the huts etc. But doesnt seem to mention anything in particular which these bumps could be.

I did think of another possibility though. Could it have been a firing range? In their training there would have been two main types of range use. One for general practise of accuracy, and one for zeroing in the rifle sights. This was to align the sights to each rifle for more accurate shooting. With the Lee Metfords and Lee Enfield rifles they had that would have been done at around 100 yards range. If there were banks of earth, they would act as a safety wall to stop wayward bullets.

[Bayleaf]

I was reading through the Redmires section in my copy of the 12th Battalion history book last night. It mentions digging trenches, laying roads and paths, helping to build some of the huts etc. But doesnt seem to mention anything in particular which these bumps could be.

I did think of another possibility though. Could it have been a firing range? In their training there would have been two main types of range use. One for general practise of accuracy, and one for zeroing in the rifle sights. This was to align the sights to each rifle for more accurate shooting. With the Lee Metfords and Lee Enfield rifles they had that would have been done at around 100 yards range. If there were banks of earth, they would act as a safety wall to stop wayward bullets.

Interesting thought. But didn't they do this at Cannock rather than Redmires according to the book? Still, the fact it isn't mentioned doesn't rule it out does it.

[Guest pfn]

Mystery of markings at Redmires solved?

By total co-incidence after showing the aerial photo to some archeologists who work next door to me, one of them has come back from seeing an archeo friend of hers who works for Derbyshire County Council. She had a copy of a 'Archeolology and Conservation in Derbyshire' magazine from 2006 published by the Derbyshire Archeological Advisory Committee.

It includes, as above, a survey of Hill 60 South, and some corresponding very similar diagrams from an Officers Field Handbook from 1916. The crenelated trenches are made to contain front line firing bays with communication trenches running behind and away from them. Platforms set within this system appear to correspond with shelters, and stations from which officers could direct training activities.

So it is thought that the hill 60 site contained a facsimile of a full working set of front line trenches with all the components expected in a wartime situation, built for training in. While the other Redmires archeological site on Quarry Hill contained the remains of the practising of digging trenches, possibly allocated to seperate working teams.

[SteveHB]

Just came across this, a photo postcard of Redmires camp 1915.

[RichardB]

Alphaeus Abbott Casey Diary, Sheffield City Battalion

http://www.pals.org.uk/sheffield/casey_diary01.htm

Extract :

Alphaeus Abbott Casey was born at Annesley Woodhouse, Nottinghamshire on 22nd January 1895, the son of Thomas and Annie Casey. He was a student at the University of Sheffield when he enlisted into the ranks of the City Battalion with the number 12/69 on 10th September 1914. Between 1st January and 24th March 1915, during which time the battalion was at Redmires Camp, Alphaeus kept a detailed diary which gives a rare insight into the training regime of a Pals battalion. On 1st July 1916, he was killed in action with the battalion's "A" Company during the attack on Serre. Alphaeus has no known grave, and is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial.

[dunsbyowl1867]

Another feature on BBC Radio

Making History http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00sjbt1/Making_History_01_06_2010/

Also features a claim that there was a "Hill 60" in Roundhay Park Leeds - they have to stick their awe in don't they:angry:

[Guest nigelbs]

Just came across this, a photo postcard of Redmires camp 1915.

That's an excellent postcard photo of the camp at redmires. I checked Googlemaps today to try and frame the exact same view of the camp from Roper Hill and this is what i found:

[Bayleaf]

Hi, and welcome to the forum! There are several threads about the Redmires camp on the Forum, and one of our members did a 'then and now' of the postcard. You seem to have found the same spot! Do you have a particular interest in the place?