Italian Pow - Pow Camps -

[Guest EmmaandEden]

Hello

My daughter and I are desperate to help find some information on my dads father, below is a post my father placed on an Italian Genealogy website. How can I find the POW camp at Treeton? Is this the same as Lodge Moore? Praying somebody can point in me in some direction.

x

I was born in Mar 1945, my mother is Marion Sheldon, sadly now deceased. From gathering family information my father was an Italian Soldier interned at a camp in Treeton, Nr Sheffield and Rotherham. Many years ago I obtained my birth certificate and under father the space only contained a single line, no name. I was legally adopted by my grandparents but the adoption court in Wakefield have been unable to locate the court records despite me trying to encourage a greater search. I have been told by my mothers two sisters many stories about other women who had been in relationships with the Italians from the camp and that they also had children. I traced one family where the Italian soldier had returned and married the girl and stayed in the UK, sadly he had passed away and the family did not have any information to pass on. My father was known as "johnny" English I understand for "Giovani?" It is now many years since this occurred, I am almost 67 but I have a daughter and granddaughter who want to know more and maybe get a name or trace some of my Italian siblings! Where and what can be done to obtain Italian POW Personnel Records or Camp Nominal Rolls from this period. Can you help, do you know of any other similar events, heard any stories, do you have a father or grandfather who was a POW in the UK. I would respect any family confidence and would not wish to stir or raise such an issue that would or maybe cause any embarrassment whatsoever.

[SteveHB]

Not claiming that this was same place, but it is a start .. www.treetonweb.co.uk

Treeton and Lodge Moor are miles apart.

[DaveH]

Not claiming that it is the same place, but it is a start .. www.treetonweb.co.uk

Welcome to Sheffield History EmmaandEden and thank for posting this very interesting piece of local family history.

I hope some of our members may be able to help you with this, particularly those that do a lot of genealogical research.

All I can say is that Lodge Moor and Treeton both had Italian POW camps, but they are not the same place.

Lodge Moor is well out to the west of the City in a very rural district, almost in the Peak District National Park. It was well isolated from the City, in fact it used to house our isolation hospital for highly contageous diseases, and would have been a better place to send POW's with aspirations to escape, be awkward or cause trouble or who otherwise could not be trusted even in surrender.

Treeton however is to the east of the City and quite close to Rotherham. It is a mining village (or was at the time, the mine was closed some time ago) and would have local people living there and easy access both to Sheffield and Rotherham. POW's sent there were probably friendlier and more trustworthy, - they obviously were allowed some freedom in that trust if they were able to mix with the local community, as many did. They would also be expected to work for Britain, - this may have been mining the local pit whilst the local men were away on military service, or it may have been constructing temporary prefabricated housing to make up for housing lost due to bomb damage in the Blitz ready for after the war when British servicemen returned home, or some other type of work in the community.

As our member SteveHB says a good place to start would probably be the Treeton Mining Centre, - one time Italian POW camp, to see if they can help in any way.

Good luck with the search for information, I wish you success in this fascinating piece of research into your family history as I am sure your Daughter and grand daughter would love to know about their long lost Italian relatives.

[Beery]

My mother often spoke of having a couple of POWs (one German, one Italian) visit their home in Heeley during WW2, so there must have been a camp somewhere nearby, or POWs were bused into Sheffield from a camp in the area, and POWs must have been given quite a free rein.

I can't help directly, but I would advise male family members to get their DNA tested. Sometimes (rarely, but worth a try) DNA can find a link where all else fails. The family member taking the test would have to be male in this case, and would need to be a direct male-line descendant of the man in question. The test to get in this case is a Y-DNA test, and I recommend the Family Tree DNA site for this. FTDNA is world-wide. They send a few cheek swabs and a return-postage packet and the results get posted in a few weeks. The tests aren't cheap, but they can be essential, especially if the male line may die out (i.e. if a male descendant has only girl children).

[DaveH]

My mother often spoke of having a couple of POWs (one German, one Italian) visit their home in Heeley during WW2, so there must have been a camp somewhere nearby, or POWs were bused into Sheffield from a camp in the area, and POWs must have been given quite a free rein.

In another topic on POW's I have mentioned this friendliness amongst enemies before, - and the fact that some POW's actually got a lot of freedom in the community if they could be trusted and were prepared to work.

A Derbyshire friend of mine lived near a POW camp at Swanwick in Derbyshire. His dad was on leave from armed service (awaiting D-Day), his sister had an American GI boyfriend and they had befriended a German POW from the local camp who was allowed out on work parties and for a limited amount of social time. He told me that they would all have Sunday lunch together at their house, usually after going to church. there was never any animosity or trouble even though this was 1944 and the war was still on.

In his own words "At Sunday lunchtime it was like the United Nations in our house"

Just a bit of a pity that people from different countries and backgrounds can't always get on that well today! :(

[Waterside Echo]

In another topic on POW's I have mentioned this friendliness amongst enemies before, - and the fact that some POW's actually got a lot of freedom in the community if they could be trusted and were prepared to work.

My grandfather had Grenoside Farm, and he regulary had German POW's from the camp at Burncross working for him. I can only remember back as far as 1946ish but one of them stayed behind after the war was over and finished up staying until the camp was closed. I can remember him to this day, it was very sad he just did not want to go home. War's eh ! W/E.

[Beery]

My grandfather had Grenoside Farm, and he regulary had German POW's from the camp at Burncross working for him. I can only remember back as far as 1946ish but one of them stayed behind after the war was over and finished up staying until the camp was closed. I can remember him to this day, it was very sad he just did not want to go home. War's eh ! W/E.

One of my mum's POWs (the German one) was actually from the Sudetenland (which was a German-speaking part of Czechoslovakia until the Germans invaded), and my mum always told me that he didn't want to go back because he thought he would be killed for having joined the German army. I wish I could remember his name. I think it was Willi - so maybe Wilhelm - no idea of the last name.

[DaveH]

My grandfather had Grenoside Farm, and he regulary had German POW's from the camp at Burncross working for him. I can only remember back as far as 1946ish but one of them stayed behind after the war was over and finished up staying until the camp was closed. I can remember him to this day, it was very sad he just did not want to go home. War's eh ! W/E.

Many stayed behind after the war for a variety of reasons

They may have made new friends here, or even married a local girl and started a new life.

They may have lost all their family back home in the war and have nothing left to return to.

They may be returning to total devastation back home facing having to start all over again, and post war Britain, austere as it was, may have been a better option.

They may have been going back to a country now occupied by Communist forces, and would be facing a very uncertain, risky and possibly dangerous future.

[DaveH]

One of my mum's POWs (the German one) was actually from the Sudetenland (which was a German-speaking part of Czechoslovakia until the Germans invaded), and my mum always told me that he didn't want to go back because he thought he would be killed for having joined the German army. I wish I could remember his name. I think it was Willi - so maybe Wilhelm - no idea of the last name.

After the war Czechoslovakia (as it was then) fell under Soviet Communist rule.

See the last comment in my previous post, - could this be why he didn't want to go home, - and given the circumstances who would want to make him? He was effectively a Political refugee.

In 1968 Czechoslovakia rebelled against Soviet oppression just as Hungary had done previously in 1956. The Soviety response was the same as in both cases, to send tanks in through their superior military weight about.

It wasn't until the collapse of Communism in Eastern Europe in 1989-91 that both countries gained their freedom, - at which time Czechoslovakia split into 2 seperate countries (Czech Republic and Slovakia). The cost of World War 2 for these people was not only suffering under the Nazi's and having their country destroyed, but after the war they suffered 45 years of oppression under Soviet control.

On my summer holiday this year I am hoping to visit both the Czech Republic and Hungary. Something that just over 20 years ago I am sure I would not be able to do easily.

[dunsbyowl1867]

My grandfather had Grenoside Farm, and he regulary had German POW's from the camp at Burncross working for him. I can only remember back as far as 1946ish but one of them stayed behind after the war was over and finished up staying until the camp was closed. I can remember him to this day, it was very sad he just did not want to go home. War's eh ! W/E.

Hi W/e where was the Burncross camp exactly?

[Waterside Echo]

Hi W/e where was the Burncross camp exactly?

Hi, "dunsbyowl" The camp was opposite the Acorn Inn at the bottom of Bracken Hill. See the post ' The Camp Bracken Hill Chapeltown" W/E.

[Wendy]

On 03/08/2011 at 20:34, Guest EmmaandEden said:

Hello

 

My daughter and I are desperate to help find some information on my dads father, below is a post my father placed on an Italian Genealogy website. How can I find the POW camp at Treeton? Is this the same as Lodge Moore? Praying somebody can point in me in some direction.

x

 

 

 

I was born in Mar 1945, my mother is Marion Sheldon, sadly now deceased. From gathering family information my father was an Italian Soldier interned at a camp in Treeton, Nr Sheffield and Rotherham. Many years ago I obtained my birth certificate and under father the space only contained a single line, no name. I was legally adopted by my grandparents but the adoption court in Wakefield have been unable to locate the court records despite me trying to encourage a greater search. I have been told by my mothers two sisters many stories about other women who had been in relationships with the Italians from the camp and that they also had children. I traced one family where the Italian soldier had returned and married the girl and stayed in the UK, sadly he had passed away and the family did not have any information to pass on. My father was known as "johnny" English I understand for "Giovani?" It is now many years since this occurred, I am almost 67 but I have a daughter and granddaughter who want to know more and maybe get a name or trace some of my Italian siblings! Where and what can be done to obtain Italian POW Personnel Records or Camp Nominal Rolls from this period. Can you help, do you know of any other similar events, heard any stories, do you have a father or grandfather who was a POW in the UK. I would respect any family confidence and would not wish to stir or raise such an issue that would or maybe cause any embarrassment whatsoever.

This story sounds very much like one I have. My Mother was born 1943 and has just discovered at 79 years of age her Father was not actually her biological father. We have taken her DNA and all her paternal matches are Italian. I would welcome any correspondence regarding the Italian internees in Sheffield as I am convinced my Ban befriended an Italian during the war. I really would like to find out who my grandfather actually was, mums DNA results aren’t close enough yet to help us establish this.
Thanks Wendy - heavenmbmaa@hotmail.com