Bishop's House Heritage Weekend

[duckweed]

Well its finally coming after months of preparation our first big Friend's of Bishops House Event. We are searching for the old buildings that have long since gone, looking to see what the oldest glass in the house is and much more. If you'd like to help us make this event the biggest for years please come along, bring the children, grandchildren whoever you can get hold of. It runs from 11a.m-3.30p.m on the 26th and 27th March.

Also have you got any photos of a visit to Bishops House, when you were a child or have your parents. Can we have a copy. I'm working on an exhibition of Bishops House from the time it became part of Meersbrook Park. Any stories of childhood days in the park too would be more than welcome. Tell me of your visits and what you remember.

[duckweed]

Could Bishops House be contemporary with the Bishops?

Throughout my research I have found numerous old tourist guide type publications all stating that Bishops House was not likely to be contemporary to the bishops, and in some case saying it definitely isn’t true. However there is actually no evidence at present either way.

Firstly we have no scientific evidence that could conclusively date the house. It is true samples were taken of the timbers of the house for dendro-dating (counting the tree rings) but the samples taken did not have the sapwood portion that would give an approximate age for the timbers but also we have no way of knowing which timbers were recycled from previous buildings. All we know is that some timber certainly was.

Another way of dating is comparing like with like. That is to compare one unknown age building with one similar which has documentary evidence of when it was built. This is not an accurate way of dating a building, and indeed doing it this way means that the building could be 50 years either side of the 1500 date usually stated.

Of course evidence that the Blythe bishops were born in Norton Lees is not conclusive either, only that it has been frequently stated to be so in a number of documents. We do know that the land on which the house stands belonged to the Blythes since 1377 as there is documentary evidence for that. However there is very little evidence of the Blythes living in Norton till much later. The earliest evidence I can find is 1448 for a William Blythe in a court case held in Norton Lees over a hedge obstructing a right of way.

Taking my evidence from the date of entry to Eton for the 2 bishop brothers and supposing they were entrants at the usual age of 7, (which would also tie in with the age suggested for their entry as undergraduates at Cambridge), we have approximate birthdates for John around 1459 and Geoffrey around 1469.

Given the wide sweep of possible dates for the building of Bishops House, there is a possibility that the Bishops could have been born in Bishops House. There are as yet no conclusive facts to the contrary.

Of course there are very little facts generally. There are no parish records for this period, no baptismal records, marriage records or burial records. I haven’t actually found any clear documentary evidence for Saffrey other than she was stated to be half sister to Thomas Scott alias Rotherham by him in his will.

I have no idea when she was born, married or died, nor have I for William. I don’t know if the William of Lees in 1448 was him or his father. I would guess it was his father judging from the possible dates of birth for the Bishops, and assuming that the other children were not born a long way before the Bishops. Evidence would suggest that Richard was an elder son, and that a daughter was older than the Bishops, but dating Thomas’s birth is problematic.

Based on usual practice it is unlikely that a first born son would be ordained into the priesthood as that would cause problems with inheritance. William’s and Saffrey’s lands and estates would seem to have ended split between the two brothers Richard and Thomas after their father’s death, and indeed there is a statement in a later document of a descendant stating so. There is a space between the death of Richard and the death of Geoffrey, where Geoffrey seems to have control of the estates of some of Richards lands.

So really nearly all of this is guesswork based on a few facts and usual practice. That is the nature of history. It is open to interpretation for the most part. Obviously archaeology can at times date things from a scientific fact point of view by carbon dating, but much of archaeology is done the same way on interpretation and usual practice. It obviously helps if there is documentary evidence, but as yet that hasn’t been found. Given that documents are scattered across several archives both private and public, there could still be documents out there that will shed some light. So who knows what new evidence may come to light? Till then it is still a matter of interpretation.

What we are doing at the Heritage Weekend is starting the search for new Physical Evidence. Unbelievably no one has done that in any great detail, and written histories are over 100 years old.

[Blacky]

Hi,

Is this event still going ahead?

If so what kind of activities will be on? thinking of bringing the family down for a hours if there are things they can get involved with.

My 7yr old daughter has been doing some topic work on archeaology at school and would be good to see something similar at first hand - show & tell and all that!!!

Thanks,

Lee

[duckweed]

Hi,

Is this event still going ahead?

If so what kind of activities will be on? thinking of bringing the family down for a hours if there are things they can get involved with.

My 7yr old daughter has been doing some topic work on archeaology at school and would be good to see something similar at first hand - show & tell and all that!!!

Thanks,

Lee

Very definitely. She will be able to use the geo phys equipment or point the chromakey gadget at the windows which will tell us the age of the glass. This is very much everybody gets a go.

The park rangers are running activities alongside such as grass sledging. Museum Sheffield is also running child centred activities plus she can give us a drawing to put in our gallery online or make a badge. There is dressup clothes in the house so you can take a photo of her as a tudor lady. So hopefully if the weather holds it should be a great day.

[duckweed]

The weather forecast isn't bad for this weekend. Please come along. This may be the last weekend Bishops House will be open for some time. Show your support by coming along.

[SteveHB]

The weather forecast isn't bad for this weekend. Please come along. This may be the last weekend Bishops House will be open for some time. Show your support by coming along.

A very enjoyable and well organised event,

today was the first time I have been inside Bishop's House,

It was nice to meet and speak with duckweed.

I also bumped into a Mr. & Mrs. vox

Please note, photographs of the interior can be taken, but without the aid of the flash.

[duckweed]

A very enjoyable and well organised event,

today was the first time I have been inside Bishop's House,

It was nice to meet and speak with duckweed.

I also bumped into a Mr. & Mrs. vox

Please note, photographs of the interior can be taken, but without the aid of the flash.

Not only was it fun but I met such interesting people. It looks like we are going to have an early map of the area soon. I met a retired archeaologist who has made an 18th century map from old maps and is going to work on a Tudor version with the field names and farms and old lanes.

[vox]

All the hard work and enthusiasm appreciated.

First time I've been inside for over 20 years.

(Could do with a bit of modernisation though)

Good to put a face to Duckweed and Steve.

[duckweed]

All the hard work and enthusiasm appreciated.

First time I've been inside for over 20 years.

(Could do with a bit of modernisation though)

Good to put a face to Duckweed and Steve.

Over 300 visitors this weekend and this for a place that we have been told there is little interest in. Got lots of ideas from people for new events so more to come. Was nice to talk to so many interesting people and have the house buzzing with people. Report on our Archeaological research still to come.

[SteveHB]

Over 300 visitors this weekend and this for a place that we have been told there is little interest in. Got lots of ideas from people for new events so more to come. Was nice to talk to so many interesting people and have the house buzzing with people. Report on our Archeaological research still to come.

Thank you for the update duckweed,

a few photos ..

One of the display cabinets.

A/ Cavaliers boot from Haddon Hall, Derbyshire.

B/ Flagstaff finial used by the Royalist Army, found on Bradfield Moor.

C/ Cannon balls, all found locally.

D/ Toy musket and cannon, The Blyth children would have played with toys like these.

E/ 17th century wheel-lock pistol and powder horn.

[duckweed]

Thank you for the update duckweed,

a few photos ..

One of the display cabinets.

A/ Cavaliers boot from Haddon Hall, Derbyshire.

B/ Flagstaff finial used by the Royalist Army, found on Bradfield Moor.

C/ Cannon balls, all found locally.

D/ Toy musket and cannon, The Blyth children would have played with toys like these.

E/ 17th century wheel-lock pistol and powder horn.

[duckweed]

Great photos. How do I download a photo I've got of that mystery fireback?

[SteveHB]

Great photos. How do I download a photo I've got of that mystery fireback?

Thanks,

it was a little awkward taking a decent photo inside

without the aid of the flash,

I will bring along a tripod next time.

[duckweed]

This is a fireback that belongs to the house.

We do not know its significance other than the only event

of the date on it was a victory in the Anglo Dutch Wars

[SteveHB]

This is a fireback that belongs to the house.

We do not know its significance other than the only event

of the date on it was a victory in the Anglo Dutch Wars

Interesting, this is what I see ..

a, ?

b, Lion

c, Stag

1, 2 and 3, = H R A

And 1666, of course.

[RichardB]

Interesting, this is what I see ..

a, ?

b, Lion

c, Stag

1, 2 and 3, = H R A

And 1666, of course.

A mystery from another age. Is that initials for a person, or an organization maybe ? An excellent one to ponder on Duckweed, Thank you.

I agree with Steve but have no idea about "A", a rose emblem maybe ??

[duckweed]

A mystery from another age. Is that initials for a person, or an organization maybe ? An excellent one to ponder on Duckweed, Thank you.

I agree with Steve but have no idea about "A", a rose emblem maybe ??

What might be relevant to this is the story I have picked up on of a Richard Blythe of Norton Lees who became a sea captain. He is amongst other things supposed to have been involved in the earlier Dutch Anglo wars and had a son Richard who was involved in the later Dutch Anglo Wars. Richard the younger was on the Marie Rose I think and under the Earl of Warwick. If this fireback could give us some kind of link to this story that would be interesting indeed as the Richard Blythe Senior Story is really amazing. At the moment the only connection I have is a published letter in Victorian/Edwardian publication of someone who claims to be a descendant of the Blythes and living in Hull who said he felt Richard Blythes story should have more publicity. The only evidence I have is the captain lived in Gravesend for a while and owned a pub and a Richard Blythe was born to a Richard Blythe in Gravesend about the right date in the parish records. I know the early voyage definitely had a lot of Yorkshire/Derbyshire involvement and the ships were fitted at Hull so there does seem to be a chance that there could be connections with the Blythes of Norton Lees. Especially as a cousin went to live in Hull round about that time too.