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Joseph Rodgers And Sons - Dating A Knife


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#1 Velleius

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 08:28 AM

Dear Readers,

I am from Germany and found a knife which has on the left side of the blade some markings which point to it being manufactured in Sheffield.

The markings on the left side of this quite rusty and damaged blade are:

(cross) Joseph Rodgers & Sons
Cutlers to Their Majesties
(star) No 6 Norfolk Street
Sheffield

The handle is made out of horn and has a metal plate with two holes in it at the bottom. the front end of the handle is covered by some metal cap (breadth: 13 mm)

Length: 282 mm (was probably a little bit longer because the tip of the blade looks a little bit chipped.)
Length of blade: 172 mm
Breadth of blade: 22 mm

I was searching the net for some information about the company "Joseph Rodgers and Sons" and found out that it was turned into an Ltd. in 1871. Does this mean that my knif is from the time before 1871? Or could you discard the "Ltd." in the markings? I found other knives marked with "His" or "Her" majesty but none with "Their Majesties". During which time did they use this way of marking their products?

I would dearly appreciate every hint you could offer me about the knife and the time it comes from.

Sincerely,

Daniel

#2 SteveHB

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 12:52 PM

Quite a bit of information here, SH link .. Cutlers to Their Majesties
not sure if it explains anything about knives marked with "Their Majesties"

#3 RichardB

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 02:20 PM

Their Majesties reffered to the multiple Monarchs they had been Cutlers to. See the first page of the Rodgers booklet.

Images of "Cutlers to Their Majesties"

#4 Velleius

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 03:03 PM

Thank you for the quick answers.

I read the treatise before I started to ask questions and I know to whom the term "their majesties" referred. But I am unsure from when till when they printed this "their majesties" on their products. Because before and after it was "his majesties" and "her majesties". And after 1871 there should be an "Ltd." behind the sons. Or was it not necessary to stamp it on your products when you became a limited company? Even the people offering such knives at auctions just date their knives between 1840 and 1901. Is that the closest you can get?

Daniel

#5 RichardB

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 05:34 PM

Thank you for the quick answers.

I read the treatise before I started to ask questions and I know to whom the term "their majesties" referred. But I am unsure from when till when they printed this "their majesties" on their products. Because before and after it was "his majesties" and "her majesties". And after 1871 there should be an "Ltd." behind the sons. Or was it not necessary to stamp it on your products when you became a limited company? Even the people offering such knives at auctions just date their knives between 1840 and 1901. Is that the closest you can get?

Daniel

Even to experts (which I am not) Rodgers blades are apparently difficult to date. They were certainly at the Norfolk Street address before 1840 so I don't know where that dates comes from, the 1901, I would think just relates to the belief the blade is Victorian so they choose Victoria's death - many blades, I suspect, are later than this date.

Limited refers to Limited Liability and I would have thought was entirely optional, indeed, a hindrance when what you really want is a nice phrase or a simple symbol to represent your Company and the quality of their work, e.g. Eye Witness or IXL.

All of which is of no use in dating your example or answering your question, but, until someone claiming knowledge about the subject has a say, it will suffice. If not, it may cause an arguement, which is always nice. Posted Image

Regards
Me.

#6 Unitedite

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 11:44 AM

Thank you for the quick answers.

I read the treatise before I started to ask questions and I know to whom the term "their majesties" referred. But I am unsure from when till when they printed this "their majesties" on their products. Because before and after it was "his majesties" and "her majesties". And after 1871 there should be an "Ltd." behind the sons. Or was it not necessary to stamp it on your products when you became a limited company? Even the people offering such knives at auctions just date their knives between 1840 and 1901. Is that the closest you can get?

Daniel


It would seem that by 1919, from when the attached advertisement that they were using the phrase "Cutlers to His Majesty" which I suppose, seems logical, considering that there is usually only ever one monarch on the throne at any given time.

It would also seem, from this time, that their products were being replicated by others and that these copies had been passed off as original Joseph Rodgers products, as the warning suggests.

Hope this helps.

KR


Unitedite

Attached Images

  • Joseph Rodgers and Sons Limited-Advert 1919.jpg-small.jpg


#7 Velleius

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 11:10 AM

It would seem that by 1919, from when the attached advertisement that they were using the phrase "Cutlers to His Majesty" which I suppose, seems logical, considering that there is usually only ever one monarch on the throne at any given time.

It would also seem, from this time, that their products were being replicated by others and that these copies had been passed off as original Joseph Rodgers products, as the warning suggests.

Hope this helps.

KR


Unitedite


It took me some time to get them but I hope these pictures will help to identify the knife if it is a fraud or a genuine Rodger's and perhaps from when.

Attached Images

  • IMG_0840.JPG
  • IMG_0837.JPG
  • IMG_0836.JPG


#8 schmelecaster

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 09:30 PM

Hi,

New member here! I have a knife I'm trying to find out about as well. It is a large carving knife about 40 cm long. The handle is bone or horn. The inscription on the blade reads (on three lines) "V (crown) R" , "Joesph Rodgers & Sons", "Cutlers To Her Majesty" then a star and a cross on the fourth line. On the other side of the blade it says just "England." Any way to narrow down when this was made and/or what it might be worth?

Thanks all!

Posted Image

Posted Image

#9 lebrocanteur

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:31 AM

Hi,

I a new member here - your knife is from 1898/1901 late Victorian

greetings all

#10 lebrocanteur

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:39 AM

CUTLERS TO THEIR MAJESTIES - 1840 / 1861 .- this piece was made during the period of Victoria & Albert reign circa 1850's, Even when Albert died Victoria didn't remove his name from the Royal Title as a proved of love and respect ( TO THEIR MAJESTIES meaning Victoria & Albert).

#11 Velleius

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 10:42 AM

Thank you.