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Joseph Rodgers And Sons - Dating A Knife

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Dear Readers,

I am from Germany and found a knife which has on the left side of the blade some markings which point to it being manufactured in Sheffield.

The markings on the left side of this quite rusty and damaged blade are:

(cross) Joseph Rodgers & Sons

Cutlers to Their Majesties

(star) No 6 Norfolk Street

Sheffield

The handle is made out of horn and has a metal plate with two holes in it at the bottom. the front end of the handle is covered by some metal cap (breadth: 13 mm)

Length: 282 mm (was probably a little bit longer because the tip of the blade looks a little bit chipped.)

Length of blade: 172 mm

Breadth of blade: 22 mm

I was searching the net for some information about the company "Joseph Rodgers and Sons" and found out that it was turned into an Ltd. in 1871. Does this mean that my knif is from the time before 1871? Or could you discard the "Ltd." in the markings? I found other knives marked with "His" or "Her" majesty but none with "Their Majesties". During which time did they use this way of marking their products?

I would dearly appreciate every hint you could offer me about the knife and the time it comes from.

Sincerely,

Daniel

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Their Majesties reffered to the multiple Monarchs they had been Cutlers to. See the first page of the Rodgers booklet.

Images of "Cutlers to Their Majesties"

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Thank you for the quick answers.

I read the treatise before I started to ask questions and I know to whom the term "their majesties" referred. But I am unsure from when till when they printed this "their majesties" on their products. Because before and after it was "his majesties" and "her majesties". And after 1871 there should be an "Ltd." behind the sons. Or was it not necessary to stamp it on your products when you became a limited company? Even the people offering such knives at auctions just date their knives between 1840 and 1901. Is that the closest you can get?

Daniel

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Thank you for the quick answers.

I read the treatise before I started to ask questions and I know to whom the term "their majesties" referred. But I am unsure from when till when they printed this "their majesties" on their products. Because before and after it was "his majesties" and "her majesties". And after 1871 there should be an "Ltd." behind the sons. Or was it not necessary to stamp it on your products when you became a limited company? Even the people offering such knives at auctions just date their knives between 1840 and 1901. Is that the closest you can get?

Daniel

Even to experts (which I am not) Rodgers blades are apparently difficult to date. They were certainly at the Norfolk Street address before 1840 so I don't know where that dates comes from, the 1901, I would think just relates to the belief the blade is Victorian so they choose Victoria's death - many blades, I suspect, are later than this date.

Limited refers to Limited Liability and I would have thought was entirely optional, indeed, a hindrance when what you really want is a nice phrase or a simple symbol to represent your Company and the quality of their work, e.g. Eye Witness or IXL.

All of which is of no use in dating your example or answering your question, but, until someone claiming knowledge about the subject has a say, it will suffice. If not, it may cause an arguement, which is always nice.

Regards

Me.

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Thank you for the quick answers.

I read the treatise before I started to ask questions and I know to whom the term "their majesties" referred. But I am unsure from when till when they printed this "their majesties" on their products. Because before and after it was "his majesties" and "her majesties". And after 1871 there should be an "Ltd." behind the sons. Or was it not necessary to stamp it on your products when you became a limited company? Even the people offering such knives at auctions just date their knives between 1840 and 1901. Is that the closest you can get?

Daniel

It would seem that by 1919, from when the attached advertisement that they were using the phrase "Cutlers to His Majesty" which I suppose, seems logical, considering that there is usually only ever one monarch on the throne at any given time.

It would also seem, from this time, that their products were being replicated by others and that these copies had been passed off as original Joseph Rodgers products, as the warning suggests.

Hope this helps.

KR

Unitedite

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It would seem that by 1919, from when the attached advertisement that they were using the phrase "Cutlers to His Majesty" which I suppose, seems logical, considering that there is usually only ever one monarch on the throne at any given time.

It would also seem, from this time, that their products were being replicated by others and that these copies had been passed off as original Joseph Rodgers products, as the warning suggests.

Hope this helps.

KR

Unitedite

It took me some time to get them but I hope these pictures will help to identify the knife if it is a fraud or a genuine Rodger's and perhaps from when.

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Hi,

New member here! I have a knife I'm trying to find out about as well. It is a large carving knife about 40 cm long. The handle is bone or horn. The inscription on the blade reads (on three lines) "V (crown) R" , "Joesph Rodgers & Sons", "Cutlers To Her Majesty" then a star and a cross on the fourth line. On the other side of the blade it says just "England." Any way to narrow down when this was made and/or what it might be worth?

Thanks all!

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CUTLERS TO THEIR MAJESTIES - 1840 / 1861 .- this piece was made during the period of Victoria & Albert reign circa 1850's, Even when Albert died Victoria didn't remove his name from the Royal Title as a proved of love and respect ( TO THEIR MAJESTIES meaning Victoria & Albert).

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Joseph Rodgers Norfolk Street circa 1900

Joseph Rodgers Norfolk Street.jpg

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... and the location today, from approximately the same viewpoint.

Then: Central Post Office, World Renowned Master Cutler, Public House

-o-

Now: Extension of SHU's Art Department, Bingo Hall, Afro-Caribbean Foods Market

There's progress for you! lol

 

This link about the Post Office building may be of interest?....

Derelict Places - Sheffield Central Post Office

IMG_3100.PNG

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I don't suppose that it really matters in the context of the comparison between then and now, but I think that old photo of Joseph Rodgers dates from rather later than 1900.

The tramway terminated in Fitzalan Square until 1908 when a single track siding was built on Flat Street, terminating opposite Sycamore Street. The line along Flat Street was only doubled and extended along Pond Street in the early 1920s.

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Much as I hate to be contentious with the originally quoted date of 1900, the notes of the Central Post Office state that it was built in 1910, yet it was in the photo, with the wall mounted clock on the left of shot?.....

"Sheffield's Head Post Office operated in the square for almost ninety years. Built in 1910 as an addition to the 1897 post office building on Flat Street, it closed in 1999, with the main post office moving to new premises within the Co-op store on Angel Street."

So, I tend to agree with you, madannie77

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I guess we should have known the date of the photo should have been much later, just by looking at the car, facing up Norfolk Street? It is certainly of the 1920‘s, than the turn of the century? At that time, they were barely more than a 'horseless carriage'.

So, 19th November 1929 it is then, but is it 3 o'clock, or just after a quarter past midday? lol

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1 hour ago, RLongden said:

I guess we should have known the date of the photo should have been much later, just by looking at the car, facing up Norfolk Street? It is certainly of the 1920‘s, than the turn of the century? At that time, they were barely more than a 'horseless carriage'.

So, 19th November 1929 it is then, but is it 3 o'clock, or just after a quarter past midday? lol

The car did it for me but yours and  madannie77 's  observations are far more conclusive.  Zooming in it looks like 12:15 to me but either way the streets are quiet for what at least in my time was a market day (Tuesday).

  • Haha 1

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