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"puddlers Candles"

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Puddlers Candles and Puddling as a process, any ideas please ?

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Any Chemistry teachers can be the judge of the final, definitive answer.

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Puddlers Candles and Puddling as a process, any ideas please ?

---------------------------

Any Chemistry teachers can be the judge of the final, definitive answer.

The Puddling Process.

In 1784 Henry Cort devised a method of producing wrought iron from cast iron using a Coal fired Reverbatory Furnace. Solid Cast Iron was heated within an enclosed furnace.

A Reverberatory Furnace is a long low structure built out of fire bricks. The coal fire was at one end with the hearth between the fire and the chimney.

The hearth was slightly dished with a roof that directed the smoke and flame from the fire well above the iron. By keeping the smoke and flame above the iron,

no carbon from the fire came in contact with the iron.

Solid Pig (Cast) Iron was heated vigorously in the hearth until it was all molten. The fire was then damped down and the iron stirred so as to bring as much as possible in contact with the air.

As wrought Iron has a higher melting point than Cast Iron, if the temperature in the furnace was correct the iron began to solidify as the carbon was removed.

Eventually the Wrought Iron could be worked into a single lump of iron in the centre of the Hearth.

Although in theory this was Wrought Iron it was not usable in this form because of the slag within the lump.

For the Wrought Iron to be made usable, it was lifted from the furnace and forged using a 'Shindling Hammer'. Finally it was rolled into bars or sheet.

As most of the slag was squeezed out of the iron under the Shindling Hammer this could be a dangerous job, with each drop of the hammer white hot slag would be strayed out across the forge.

As the workmen had to hold and move the iron during the forging, there was no option other than for them to dress in heavy protective clothing.

An improvement to Cort's puddling process came from Joseph Hall in 1816.

Hall added mill scale (iron oxide formed and broken off during the forging and rolling) to the Cast Iron at the start of the Puddling process. Once the iron had melted,

the carbon monoxide formed by the mill scale bubbled up through the iron giving the impression of boiling, thus the common name for this refinement 'Pig Boiling'.

http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/i-k.html

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Just slightley of subject.

Canal Puddler During canal construction, 'puddled' layers of clay on the sides and bottom of the canal to waterproof it .

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Puddlers Candles,

jets of flame (blue) produced when carbon monoxide is released

from the molten bath in the puddling furnace at boiling stage.

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Any Chemistry teachers can be the judge of the final, definitive answer.

You requested my services

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Any Chemistry teachers can be the judge of the final, definitive answer.

OK,

But as a fully paid up member of the Royal society of Chemistry and being a Chartered Chemist as well I should warn you that on matters of chemistry I charge a high consultancy fee! lol

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Puddlers Candles and Puddling as a process, any ideas please ?

---------------------------

Any Chemistry teachers can be the judge of the final, definitive answer.

When l was a young lad our neighbour was a "Puddler" apart from telling me what an awful job it was in winter, he went on to tell me what his work was, and his description was as follows,[ he worked for various steel firms,] rising at 5am he would set off to his current place of work where a load of certain clay was delivered at 6am, He would the place about 4 spades of this clay on to a large smooth area of concrete, he would then take off his boots and roll up his trousers and proceed to PUDDLE he would dance on the clay, sometimes singing a favourite tune, while the clay was pounded to a consistency to form a CRUCIBLE pot which was about 10 inches in diameter and 2 foot high by forming the pot over a dome shaped mould greased to allow easy removal, it was then fired before use, and filled with molten metal poured from the furnace, which was then poured into a mould by two men holding the pot with a clamp, to form either a shape or an ingot, the puddler would make further crucible pots according to requirements [ these old disused.pots were to be seen very often as garden decorations in those days] l used to like sitting on his low wall with him, and his pint pot of tea, telling me all sorts of useful of advice, and ,things l could not ask my dad, His name was Jack Goodwin he was quite a character. Cheers skeets.

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Puddlers Candles and Puddling as a process, any ideas please ?

---------------------------

Any Chemistry teachers can be the judge of the final, definitive answer.

In a similar vein who can tell me what a "robble" was or even a " robble head" pronounced robble eeard.

HD

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When l was a young lad our neighbour was a "Puddler" apart from telling me what an awful job it was in winter, he went on to tell me what his work was, and his description was as follows,[ he worked for various steel firms,] rising at 5am he would set off to his current place of work where a load of certain clay was delivered at 6am, He would the place about 4 spades of this clay on to a large smooth area of concrete, he would then take off his boots and roll up his trousers and proceed to PUDDLE he would dance on the clay, sometimes singing a favourite tune, while the clay was pounded to a consistency to form a CRUCIBLE pot which was about 10 inches in diameter and 2 foot high by forming the pot over a dome shaped mould greased to allow easy removal, it was then fired before use, and filled with molten metal poured from the furnace, which was then poured into a mould by two men holding the pot with a clamp, to form either a shape or an ingot, the puddler would make further crucible pots according to requirements [ these old disused.pots were to be seen very often as garden decorations in those days] l used to like sitting on his low wall with him, and his pint pot of tea, telling me all sorts of useful of advice, and ,things l could not ask my dad, His name was Jack Goodwin he was quite a character. Cheers skeets.

Well skeets,

Although dancing around in bare feet on wet clay to make crucibles sounds highly unlikely and ridiculous it is exactly what I have always been lead to believe that "puddling" was.

I am sure I have even seen a video / film at one time showing this process being carried out. It was part of a longer film about steel making in general so was not part of an April fools day joke or anything.

So, I am convinced that you are right about puddling.

However, - I haven't made the connection with candles yet though!

Unless a long cylindrical load of clay (the general size of a crucible) is called a "candle"

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In a similar vein who can tell me what a "robble" was or even a " robble head" pronounced robble eeard.

HD

I thought that "robble" was a mispronunciation or local accented version of the word "Ribble", meaning a river that flows through North Yorkshire and Lancashire, reaching the Irish Sea just beyond Preston.

Ribble Head (or Ribble eeard) is a point along the river where a viaduct was built to cross it, the Ribble Head Viaduct

Or should that be Robble Eeard Viaduct? lol

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However, - I haven't made the connection with candles yet though!

Unless a long cylindrical load of clay (the general size of a crucible) is called a "candle"

I thought that my post #4 explained the term?

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I thought that "robble" was a mispronunciation or local accented version of the word "Ribble", meaning a river that flows through North Yorkshire and Lancashire, reaching the Irish Sea just beyond Preston.

Ribble Head (or Ribble eeard) is a point along the river where a viaduct was built to cross it, the Ribble Head Viaduct

Or should that be Robble Eeard Viaduct? lol

They are used in steelmaking.

Think in the context of hammer & hammer head (eeard)

HD

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They are used in steelmaking.

Think in the context of hammer & hammer head (eeard)

HD

A robble is a rake like device designed to remove the last traces of slag from the molten bath of a steel making furnace, originally open-hearth and nowadays electric-arc. It comprises of a long steel rod about 0.75 inch diameter with a loop forged on one end to act as a handle. The robble head is a batten of hard wood about 2 by 4 inches and approx 2 feet long with a hole drilled through in the middle. The head is hammered onto the end of the rod like a rake. When the furnace has been tilted one way to teem off the bulk of the slag, the robble is put through the slag door and resting on a bar across the slag door is used to rake off any residual slag, it might also be used to spread any additions across the molten bath. When you consider that the metal is at a temperature of around 1400/1500 degrees centigrade you can see that it's not a job for the faint-hearted. The robble heads don't last very long ! The furnace is then tilted the other way to empty the charge into a ladle.

HD

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They are used in steelmaking.

Think in the context of hammer & hammer head (eeard)

HD

You've just answered your own question now hilldweller! :o

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I thought that my post #4 explained the term?

Great, gases burning off from inside a crucible would look very candle like wouldn't it?

So the chemists judgement is.....

1

skeets has correctly explained what puddling and what a puddler does

2

SteveHB has explained where the candle bit comes in, and how gases burning off from molten steel in a puddled clay crucible would look like a candle.

Between them I think they have got it. ;-)

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Great, gases burning off from inside a crucible would look very candle like wouldn't it?

So the chemists judgement is.....

1

skeets has correctly explained what puddling and what a puddler does

2

SteveHB has explained where the candle bit comes in, and how gases burning off from molten steel in a puddled clay crucible would look like a candle.

Between them I think they have got it. ;-)

I think the relevence of Skeets and Steve's posts were missed by some.

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You've just answered your own question now hilldweller! :o

Sorry ! hit "Add Reply" instead of "Preview Post"

Senior Moment, I meant to copy and save for later.

HD

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Sorry ! hit "Add Reply" instead of "Preview Post"

HD

Did you hit it with a robble eeard hammer? lol

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OK,

But as a fully paid up member of the Royal society of Chemistry and being a Chartered Chemist as well I should warn you that on matters of chemistry I charge a high consultancy fee! lol

We are having a collection for your fees, see you in 2017 he he

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I think the relevence of Skeets and Steve's posts were missed by some.

Until Steve pointed it out I had missed his post completely.

Sometimes happens, either when posts have been made within minutes of each other or when the "VIEW RECENT POSTS" suddenly deceides to reset itself and start a new list for no apparent reason and at some random point in time. :angry:

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Did you hit it with a robble eeard hammer? lol

No, but as a keen young technician I've been threatened with a robble eeard when I suggested that the first hand melter might like to shut down his furnace to allow me to adjust something. He didn't think it was a good idea !

First hand melters were the kings of the melting shop and nobody argued with them.

HD

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We are having a collection for your fees, see you in 2017 he he

I take it that Steve and skeets are correct then Richard.

Don't worry about my professional fees.

As usual my services are offered FREE to Sheffield History ;-)

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Puddlers Candles and Puddling as a process, any ideas please ?

---------------------------

Any Chemistry teachers can be the judge of the final, definitive answer.

One of my grandfathers and his father were iron puddlers in Sheffield. My father tells me my grandfather wore moleskin trousers to protect his legs as he stood over a furnace in the floor lifting out the red hot metal in a crucible. The work was hot and heavy as can be imagined. My grandfather lost his job in the 1920s and was out of work along with most of his neighbours in Attercliffe until 1937 when there was a sudden boost to the steel industry due to the on coming war however he did not go back to iron puddling as these furnaces were no longer used. Hope this of help.

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