Leg of Mutton and Trimmings

[Guest skeets]

Era 1814.

There were no buildings in Green Lane except the Stove Grate Manufactory, now Hooles,

Then came a few cottages , and after that Green Lane Wheel, where Messers Dixon's Works now stand.

There were no houses on Meadow Street , beyond where my master lived - except Hoyles house, from which a road went to Shalesmoor called Coachgate.

About that time a man named Hinchcliffe , who kept the Greyhound Inn near Copper Street , was l believe, the only constable in Sheffield, then Jerry Senior and after Mr Waterfall who is known as Longfoot who kept the Public House in Smithfield called the LEG OF MUTTON AND TRIMMINGS.

Waterfall had a son named Bill who frequently paid my halfpenny fine to go play truant with him when we went to Lancastrian School, Bill afterwards became the Manager of the Sheffield and Rotherham Bank, and after the Sheffield Waterworks Co.

The next building up the river was the Nelly Wheel built on Nelly Island across which Rutland Road now stands there was a ford with stepping stones which led to the Neepend Tavern.

[ He writes re; BEEHIVE HOTEL] when West Street was made it cut through a garden to a cottage owned by a shoemaker, to compensate the owner they built him the BEEHIVE HOTEL

[This snippet is from his Reminiscences just before he died in 1898].

Skeets.

[Guest tsavo]

Brilliant Skeets, that's a real slice of history, with many of the places mentioned are placed just right for our imagination to fill in the gaps. More please if possible.

[RichardB]

Indeed, a few short sentences, so much information, so much possibility. Edited to highlight stuff people in Portugal (no one in particular) might chase !

More please, all of it ! I'll type the bugger up !

[RichardB]

Era 1814.

There were no buildings in Green Lane (Reference to our Maps, probably 29.30 or 31) except the Stove Grate Manufactory (pre-Hoole history ?), now Hooles (dates for Hooles, Reference to 1950's Map for comparison, Flood History ? ?),

Then came a few cottages , and after that Green Lane Wheel (Dates ?, Old map References ?), where Messers Dixon's Works now stand (Dates ?, References to district, history, products ...)

There were no houses on Meadow Street (Map Reference), beyond where my master lived - except Hoyles house (Location ?), from which a road went to Shalesmoor called Coachgate (Early Map references ?).

About that time a man named Hinchcliffe (Chase this man), who kept the Greyhound Inn (Map reference, I remember this building, I'm 46, PictureSheffield, The Pubs listing) near Copper Street (Map reference), was l believe, the only constable in Sheffield (SheffieldRecordsOnline - any reference to this man ?), then Jerry Senior (SheffieldRecordsOnline ?) and after Mr Waterfall (SheffieldRecordsOnline ?) who is known as Longfoot (?) who kept the Public House in Smithfield called the LEG OF MUTTON AND TRIMMINGS (Any historical references ?).

Waterfall had a son named Bill who frequently paid my halfpenny fine to go play truant with him when we went to Lancastrian School (Reference to Maps), Bill afterwards became the Manager of the Sheffield and Rotherham Bank (Reference to Maps), and after the Sheffield Waterworks Co (Reference to Maps).

The next building up the river was the Nelly Wheel (Any History, Maps ?) built on Nelly Island (Any History, Maps ?) across which Rutland Road now stands there was a ford (Early Maps ?) with stepping stones which led to the Neepend Tavern (Keepers of Pubs ?, Map Reference ?).

[ He writes re; BEEHIVE HOTEL] when West Street was made it cut through (when was this ?) a garden to a cottage owned by a shoemaker, to compensate the owner they built him the BEEHIVE HOTEL. (Who was this ?)

[This snippet is from his Reminiscences just before he died in 1898].

Skeets.

Further edited to wind up Tsavo :P

[RichardB]

Era 1814.

There were no buildings in Green Lane except the Stove Grate Manufactory, now Hooles,

Then came a few cottages , and after that Green Lane Wheel, where Messers Dixon's Works now stand.

There were no houses on Meadow Street , beyond where my master lived - except Hoyles house, from which a road went to Shalesmoor called Coachgate.

About that time a man named Hinchcliffe , who kept the Greyhound Inn near Copper Street , was l believe, the only constable in Sheffield, then Jerry Senior and after Mr Waterfall who is known as Longfoot who kept the Public House in Smithfield called the LEG OF MUTTON AND TRIMMINGS.

Waterfall had a son named Bill who frequently paid my halfpenny fine to go play truant with him when we went to Lancastrian School, Bill afterwards became the Manager of the Sheffield and Rotherham Bank, and after the Sheffield Waterworks Co.

The next building up the river was the Nelly Wheel built on Nelly Island across which Rutland Road now stands there was a ford with stepping stones which led to the Neepend Tavern.

[ He writes re; BEEHIVE HOTEL] when West Street was made it cut through a garden to a cottage owned by a shoemaker, to compensate the owner they built him the BEEHIVE HOTEL

[This snippet is from his Reminiscences just before he died in 1898].

Skeets.

I have found this !!!

1821 Trade Directory by Gell and Bennett

John Whitehead, victualler Leg of Mutton, Smithfield

The Leg of Mutton now qualifies for entry into the main list; however, no sign of Mr Waterfall in regard to these premises.

[ukelele lady]

Era 1814.

There were no buildings in Green Lane except the Stove Grate Manufactory, now Hooles,

Then came a few cottages , and after that Green Lane Wheel, where Messers Dixon's Works now stand.

There were no houses on Meadow Street , beyond where my master lived - except Hoyles house, from which a road went to Shalesmoor called Coachgate.

About that time a man named Hinchcliffe , who kept the Greyhound Inn near Copper Street , was l believe, the only constable in Sheffield, then Jerry Senior and after Mr Waterfall who is known as Longfoot who kept the Public House in Smithfield called the LEG OF MUTTON AND TRIMMINGS.

Waterfall had a son named Bill who frequently paid my halfpenny fine to go play truant with him when we went to Lancastrian School, Bill afterwards became the Manager of the Sheffield and Rotherham Bank, and after the Sheffield Waterworks Co.

The next building up the river was the Nelly Wheel built on Nelly Island across which Rutland Road now stands there was a ford with stepping stones which led to the Neepend Tavern.

[ He writes re; BEEHIVE HOTEL] when West Street was made it cut through a garden to a cottage owned by a shoemaker, to compensate the owner they built him the BEEHIVE HOTEL

[This snippet is from his Reminiscences just before he died in 1898].

Skeets.

I read in a book only two weeks ago in the City library of a pub called The Shoulder of Mutton being in

Smithfields in 1828. No nunber was given but the landlord was named as William Charlesworth,

Most likely the same pub.

[RichardB]

I read in a book only two weeks ago in the City library of a pub called The Shoulder of Mutton being in

Smithfields in 1828. No number was given but the landlord was named as William Charlesworth,

Most likely the same pub.

William Charlesworth, Shoulder of Mutton already known at 19 Top Road, Worrall (1825)

[RichardB]

Today's rooting about has uncovered a map showing the supposed location of the Leg of Mutton and trimmings and has also opened up a discrepancy between that map and the work of Lamb in his Pub on every corner.

While we're at it, the publican of the "Leg" is also listed, on Smithfield, under a different Pub name.

Attachments - Banks hand drawn map

Scan of part of Map 7 (from a photocopy)

Banks's hand-drawn map shows the Leg slap bang opposite where Cross Smithfield junctions with Smithfield.

Lamb's map shows the Life Guardsman (Dot number 23) in the same spot but claims this is 262 Moorfields (I think this is an error).

Our reference work on Pubs and keepers reveals John Whitehead to be the keeper of the Rose and Crown, 8 Smithfield in 1822.

I believe the "Leg" and the "Rose and Crown" are one and the same place.

Each Pub makes only 1 entry,

Leg of Mutton, 1821, John Whitehead

Rose & Crown, 1822, John Whitehead

no mention of either in 1828, 1829.

life.pdf

[ukelele lady]

I believe , according to most maps that number 8 Smithfield is much higher up towards Snow Lane.

Straight across from Cross Smitfields is the higher numbers of Smithfields.

Just a thought. ;-)

[RichardB]

I believe , according to most maps that number 8 Smithfield is much higher up towards Snow Lane.

Straight across from Cross Smitfields is the higher numbers of Smithfields.

Just a thought.

I don't believe ANY Street numbers that old. Probably renumbered, possibly several times. Even well known buildings on Campo Lane show remarkable renumbering. I've read (somewhere) about Snig Hill having numbers up one side then down the other; later on the numbering alternates side-to-side; then they cut a new Street and the whole lot gets renumbered.

There are very many Pub entries with 38 Fishcake Street AND 83 Fishcake Street, just a simple transcription error.

... and if Lamb can call it Moorfields despite Banks's earlier work what chance do we stand ? We just have to try ...

As per you; just a thought. My solution, certainly with stuff that old = ignore the Street numbers.

[ukelele lady]

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I don't believe ANY Street numbers that old. Probably renumbered, possibly several times. Even well known buildings on Campo Lane show remarkable renumbering. I've read (somewhere) about Snig Hill having numbers up one side then down the other; later on the numbering alternates side-to-side; then they cut a new Street and the whole lot gets renumbered.

There are very many Pub entries with 38 Fishcake Street AND 83 Fishcake Street, just a simple transcription error.

... and if Lamb can call it Moorfields despite Banks's earlier work what chance do we stand ? We just have to try ...

As per you; just a thought. My solution, certainly with stuff that old = ignore the Street numbers.

I know that they use to number cul-de-sacs [although they didn't call them that then] 1-2-3- etc as with Hanover Square

still numbered the same way today. but I think alot of these numbers have been transcribed wrongly at times.

I've found this often at the Sheffield archives and if I've been certain it was wrong I've ordered the actual book out

of the strong room to confirm. You can't get more proof than seeing the actual documents. I would rather believe maps and books than passed down information.

On the street drawing in the book it looks as though he has put the Corn Mill pub in the wrong place that's if the

Corn Mill is classed as the same as the Club Mill. Look at the 1851 map and you will see this.

Also the Bulls Head could be in the right place but the number is 24 Cross Smithfields as you can see on these two

1851 census sheets. My relatives lived at either side of the pub [that was andy] number 22 and 26.

[ukelele lady]

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Seem to be having a problem getting the third one through.

[ukelele lady]

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[ukelele lady]

Third time lucky.

[ukelele lady]

Mr Lamb has many mistakes in his 1996 edition, these are just a few.

Page 238 Burton road at Hillsborough, should be Burton street.

Page 223 Obourne street put as Osborne street[ Nether Edge]

Page 173 Pack Horse Inn down as 2 West Bar. Black dot 69 put on Spring St/Workhouse Lane.

Page 239 Yew Tree Loxley New Rd, down as Elm Tree

Page 235 Montgomery Hotel, the black dot 21 suggesting it was situated in the middle of a block of terrace houses

with an address 1 Montgomery Terrace Road. Surely being number one it would start at the end of the road and not in the

middle of the block, He has placed the black dot exactly where our entry was to go up the yard to our back to back home.

Page 157 The Sportsman should be number 48 not 59 on the map. Anyone who drank in there knows how you went from

the Sportsman straight across the road to the back yard of the Vine number 62 on the map.

The Sportsman was still open May 1965.

Also I can't find the Dennison at all on the drawings, have I missed it?

As for the Corner Pin at 23 Burlington Street, shouldn't it be on a corner? my relatives had a beerhouse at 23 Burlington St

I never knew if it had a name.