What pit was that big slag heap at end of parkway from 1965

[roy preston]

what pit was that big slag heap at end of parkway  from 1965

[Heartshome]

25 minutes ago, roy preston said:

what pit was that big slag heap at end of parkway  from 1965

Think it was NUNNERY PIT.

[History dude]

24 minutes ago, Heartshome said:

Think it was NUNNERY PIT.

That's correct

[History dude]

[John Russell]

As a kid in the '50s and early '60s I heard adults referring to those particular slag heaps as 'the black alps'.

[tozzin]

Named after Nunnery Farm presumably but why was the farm named “ Nunnery “ ?

[Edmund]

"Nunnery" was slang for a brothel, supposedly on the site.  However I can't now find any reference to where I picked this up.  But Harrison's Survey of 1637 does refer to ye Nunnery, so the brothel theory doesn't really work:

Desmesnes lying in Sheffeild parke in the use of Tenants

The said Dewhouse Close (pasture) being parte of ye little Parke lyeth Betweene those parts of ye Great Parke called ye Nunnery ye Lands & My Broomewell {Wybournewell?} South & ye River of Doun in part & ye Lands called ye Storth in parte North & abbutteth upon ye Last peice West & on ye Lands {Launds in Duke of Norfolk's copy} in ye occupacon of divers men & Cont{ains} 101 ac{res} 3 r{oods} 34 3/5 per{ches}

Desmesnes lying within Sheffeild Parke in ye use of ye Lord

Item Wy Broomewell {Wybournwell?} & ye Hill Topp lying on ye West side of ye Lands, Alsoe ye Plaunch lying on ye West Side of ye Mannor Railes Alsoe ffaunsfeild lying on ye South Side of ye Mannor Railes Alsoe ye Cundit plaine, and Arbor Thorne Hurst Alsoe Blacko Plaine & Stone Hirst lying next unto ye Lands of ye Mannor of Handsworth towards ye South East , Alsoe ye Nunnery lying between ye Lands aforesaid towards ye West & diverse mens Lands towards ye North East all which aforesaid parcells lye together undivided & cont{ain} 961 {acres} 2 (rood} 34 1/2 {perches}

Item  a parte of ye Parke with a Keepers Lodge therein standing inclosed from ye Last parcell called Georges Closes on ye North East , South & South West & from ye Nunnery on ye North West now in ye occupacon of James Morris one of ye Parke Keepers which he holdeth in regard of his office & cont{ains} 12 {acres} 1 {rood} 9 4/5 {perches}

Surfields recreation of the missing map from Harrison's survey:

Joseph Hunter makes no mention of a nunnery at Handsworth in either "Hallamshire" (1819) or "South Yorkshire" (1828).

The Nunnery is shown to be an area of land rather than a building.  We possibly need to go back before the reformation to find an actual nunnery? But I've not found any reference to one in the Manorial records.

[tozzin]

2 hours ago, Edmund said:

"Nunnery" was slang for a brothel, supposedly on the site.  However I can't now find any reference to where I picked this up.  But Harrison's Survey of 1637 does refer to ye Nunnery, so the brothel theory doesn't really work:

Desmesnes lying in Sheffeild parke in the use of Tenants

The said Dewhouse Close (pasture) being parte of ye little Parke lyeth Betweene those parts of ye Great Parke called ye Nunnery ye Lands & My Broomewell {Wybournewell?} South & ye River of Doun in part & ye Lands called ye Storth in parte North & abbutteth upon ye Last peice West & on ye Lands {Launds in Duke of Norfolk's copy} in ye occupacon of divers men & Cont{ains} 101 ac{res} 3 r{oods} 34 3/5 per{ches}

Desmesnes lying within Sheffeild Parke in ye use of ye Lord

Item Wy Broomewell {Wybournwell?} & ye Hill Topp lying on ye West side of ye Lands, Alsoe ye Plaunch lying on ye West Side of ye Mannor Railes Alsoe ffaunsfeild lying on ye South Side of ye Mannor Railes Alsoe ye Cundit plaine, and Arbor Thorne Hurst Alsoe Blacko Plaine & Stone Hirst lying next unto ye Lands of ye Mannor of Handsworth towards ye South East , Alsoe ye Nunnery lying between ye Lands aforesaid towards ye West & diverse mens Lands towards ye North East all which aforesaid parcells lye together undivided & cont{ain} 961 {acres} 2 (rood} 34 1/2 {perches}

Item  a parte of ye Parke with a Keepers Lodge therein standing inclosed from ye Last parcell called Georges Closes on ye North East , South & South West & from ye Nunnery on ye North West now in ye occupacon of James Morris one of ye Parke Keepers which he holdeth in regard of his office & cont{ains} 12 {acres} 1 {rood} 9 4/5 {perches}

Surfields recreation of the missing map from Harrison's survey:

Joseph Hunter makes no mention of a nunnery at Handsworth in either "Hallamshire" (1819) or "South Yorkshire" (1828).

The Nunnery is shown to be an area of land rather than a building.  We possibly need to go back before the reformation to find an actual nunnery? But I've not found any reference to one in the Manorial records.

All this information is fascinating Edmund, thanks.

[History dude]

Not named after the farm. It's possible that it dates back to the 13 Century. It's known that the Lord of Hallamshire gave land to the Nunnery at Gildingwells which is not far from the Oldcoates Car Boot fair these days.  The Lord gave land away like this to the church to pray for his soul as he passed through purgatory. It would not be worth much to him as it was covered with that black stuff coming out of the ground. And it was part of the Park.  I think the association with brothels is a bit of a red herring. Much of the scandals around the church spreadered around after the Henry VIII thing, who was inventing stories to get the money and lands the church had.    

[MartinR]

I've just looked this up in the OED. The earliest quotation of "nunnery" as a brothel is from 1593.  Of course only written records can be quotations, so the slang usage will be older, how much older is a moot point.  The 1593 quotation is serious, as part of a warning to the inhabitants of London to mend their ways during a particularly sever outbreak of bubonic plague.  However the following year the phrase occurs in an altogether lighter account of the Christmastide revelries at Gray's Inn, London.  A whole court was established, with silly titles.  Amongst them in the entry "Lucy *****, Abbess de Clerkenwell, holdeth the Nunnery of Clerkenwell".  There was no genuine Nunnery in Clerkenwell in 1594!  How much of this is fictitious, or whether the said Lucy was actually present and was the "madam" of a brothel there is entirely open to conjecture.

[roy preston]

Hi Thanks for the info, I lived on  maltravers Rd Wybourn  I was took into care when I was 6  Dad left and mum could not bring me up on her own  (no help for single parents in those days )I was addopted  by a family in scarborough  my birth mum died when I was 9  I also had a sister called carol she was 16 in 1963 and she worked at gunstones  I have never been able to find her ,I remember the slag heap near our house I can still smell it every time I am reminded of sheffield  I was very lucky to have two wonderfull foster parents and to be brought up in a wonderfull home ,my name was roy parker if anybody on this site lived on wybourn and new the parkers (my dad was well known in the local pub) my  mom worked at a local school she was a cleaner Thanks again for the info about the black mountain  ( I thought it was a volcano it used to smoke somtimes) Thanks everybody Best wishes  Roy Preston

[SteveHB]

Cricket Inn Road

[Bikeman]

On 11/09/2022 at 11:48, MartinR said:

I've just looked this up in the OED. The earliest quotation of "nunnery" as a brothel is from 1593.  Of course only written records can be quotations, so the slang usage will be older, how much older is a moot point.  The 1593 quotation is serious, as part of a warning to the inhabitants of London to mend their ways during a particularly sever outbreak of bubonic plague.  However the following year the phrase occurs in an altogether lighter account of the Christmastide revelries at Gray's Inn, London.  A whole court was established, with silly titles.  Amongst them in the entry "Lucy *****, Abbess de Clerkenwell, holdeth the Nunnery of Clerkenwell".  There was no genuine Nunnery in Clerkenwell in 1594!  How much of this is fictitious, or whether the said Lucy was actually present and was the "madam" of a brothel there is entirely open to conjecture.

That's quite funny Martin! I wonder what a religious gathering of women (nuns) living in a nunnery think about the 'alternative' meaning of the word, if, in fact, it is accurate. At junior school, we had nuns living in a nunnery across the road and I'm sure they would be appalled by the idea of a brothel!

[MartinR]

I've just noticed that my posting has been censored.  The word that has been blanked out is what at the time, and until the 1980s was a polite term for a black person but is now regarded as an insult.

[tozzin]

I know I'm going off the Nunnery thread but I can remember the partial slag heap on Northern Avenue on Arbourthorne , I seem to remember my mother telling me to keep away from it when we visited my grandmother who lived just opposite the slag, mother always said it's still burning, presumably the slag came from the pit near by or maybe the Nunnery.

 

[History dude]

19 hours ago, tozzin said:

I know I'm going off the Nunnery thread but I can remember the partial slag heap on Northern Avenue on Arbourthorne , I seem to remember my mother telling me to keep away from it when we visited my grandmother who lived just opposite the slag, mother always said it's still burning, presumably the slag came from the pit near by or maybe the Nunnery.

 

More likely from the Deep Pit, which was at the back of the Travellers Rest pub. 

[tozzin]

6 minutes ago, History dude said:

More likely from the Deep Pit, which was at the back of the Travellers Rest pub. 

More than likely as the ground where allotments stood from the Manor Estate to the Travellers was just shale everywhere, I always remember that.

[Hopman]

Apologies if this picture has been seen before. I found it on the internet (I think someone queried the location) but I don't recall where.

[Ponytail]

Looking at the positioning of the lamp posts, road bend sign and the similar furrows in the slag heap, I would suggest this is a slightly earlier photo than the one posted by SteveHB 12th September which is captioned as Cricket Inn Road. I'm sure someone can do some detective work on the Company signs in the foreground... It looks like John Tonks & Co. Ltd. only ref to a John Tonks I can discover was on Furnace Hill. The name above appears to be C. A Ward & Co Ltd. Unfortunately I can only see them on the small screen of my phone so I may be mistaken in my interpretation of the names. 

[SteveHB]

9 hours ago, Ponytail said:

Looking at the positioning of the lamp posts, road bend sign and the similar furrows in the slag heap, I would suggest this is a slightly earlier photo than the one posted by SteveHB 12th September which is captioned as Cricket Inn Road. I'm sure someone can do some detective work on the Company signs in the foreground... It looks like John Tonks & Co. Ltd. only ref to a John Tonks I can discover was on Furnace Hill. The name above appears to be C. A Ward & Co Ltd. Unfortunately I can only see them on the small screen of my phone so I may be mistaken in my interpretation of the names. 

1965 directory

John Tonk & Co. Ltd., spring manufacturers, (Wybourn works).
S A Ward & Co. Ltd., engineers,  (Wybourn works).

[Ponytail]

I knew you wouldn't disappoint. Don't have the access these days.