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The history of Robin Hood at Normandale House in Loxley

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On 25/07/2018 at 16:33, Old rider said:

Robin Hood's Well.

I didn't know he'd been ill.

  • Haha 1

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1 hour ago, southside said:

Robin is the tree that your parents are standing in front of the original Major Oak?  I was told that the Major Oak we see today is a different tree altogether.

I managed to recover these two pictures. the black & white one was taken about 60 years ago, The bottom one in 2007.

Mum Gran Gladys Me at the Major Oak.jpg

Major Oak 2007.jpg

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On 25/07/2018 at 14:47, R0BIN said:

Does this site clarify things? I will answer questions if I can.

https://robinhood-loxley.weebly.com

 

 

 

Hi ROBIN, interesting reading! but it still does not explain Little John's Grave in Hathersage Church Yard.- Everyone elses input is also of interest, though the information details are getting even more confusing about the true identity of Robin Hood. With a 'Legend', there is usually a 'True Thread' running through the story from somewhere, but over time, many a 'Story Teller' would have inserted their own ideas and familiar surroundings, to engage the local community listening on. As most people couldn't read or write, 'Word of Mouth' was the only way they would have gained information. It is a wonderful story, and still so popular with old and young alike. The Tale of Robin Hood lives on! long may it continue!

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5 hours ago, Heartshome said:

Hi ROBIN, interesting reading! but it still does not explain Little John's Grave in Hathersage Church Yard.- Everyone elses input is also of interest, though the information details are getting even more confusing about the true identity of Robin Hood. With a 'Legend', there is usually a 'True Thread' running through the story from somewhere, but over time, many a 'Story Teller' would have inserted their own ideas and familiar surroundings, to engage the local community listening on. As most people couldn't read or write, 'Word of Mouth' was the only way they would have gained information. It is a wonderful story, and still so popular with old and young alike. The Tale of Robin Hood lives on! long may it continue!

It sounds to me as though you are more interested in the "legend" as told to the tourists? Perhaps you are from Hathersage and wish to perpetuate the modern fabrication? 

Have you ever thought of asking why Little John's chair in the Scotsman's Pack is a Windsor Chair of comparatively recent origin?

Have you ever imagined outlaws lugging Windsor Chairs, that did not exist in Robin Hood's day through the forest?

Have you ever asked yourself why the 'grave' is the length it is, and why the yew tree is only recently planted?

Have you ever enquired about the Blacksmith's Cottage in Hathersage that was burnt down and demolished in the late 1800's? It comprised living quarters on one side and a forge on the other side. The blacksmith was John Naylor and it is his chair that is in the Scotsman's Pack. He was small and known as "Little John." He was not an outlaw.

I refrained from telling about the fake thigh bone that was obtained from the local butcher's shop so as not to offend the people of Hathersage or the name of the later blacksmith, who if I remember correctly died in the fire. However, I do deal with the real companion of Robin Hood, who we are told was Earl Huntley's Son, as tactfully as I can without offending the Naylor family, even lending support to them. Perhaps it is best to leave the dead, and their relatives in peace.   https://robinhood-loxley.weebly.com/hathersage-little-johns-grave.html   

 

 

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Back to topic....Normandale House... Self evidently, the present house is of a much later vintage than 1160.  The question, surely, before investigating the "ins and outs" of Robin Hode/Hood/Dubois etc. etc. is..."was there a house there before the current property was built"? Answer that question, positively, and we might begin to be able to flesh out the claim...which I see was given some publicity in an article in the Star in September 2015...complete with the same illustration.

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3 hours ago, lysander said:

Back to topic....Normandale House... Self evidently, the present house is of a much later vintage than 1160.  The question, surely, before investigating the "ins and outs" of Robin Hode/Hood/Dubois etc. etc. is..."was there a house there before the current property was built"? Answer that question, positively, and we might begin to be able to flesh out the claim...which I see was given some publicity in an article in the Star in September 2015...complete with the same illustration.

People interested in the subject, told me many years ago, that Little Haggas Croft, the birthplace of Robin Hood was near Great Haggas Croft where the gamekeeper William Green lived. Later they used stone from the derelict Little Haggas Croft for the foundations of Normandale House which was a normal thing to do. That leaves us with two options, either Little Haggas Croft was on the site of the present Normandale House, or it was a little lower down the hill where in the 1930's they were mining ganister stone. 

I will just add this from the Sheffield Star:

Quote

 

"SHEFFIELD Council planning department is investigating the chopping down of trees in the legendary birthplace of Robin Hood. Trees near Normandale House, in which Robin of Loxley is said to have grown up, have been chopped down by residents of the new housing development, on Loxley Road. The development of executive houses and bungalows, some of which stand on the alleged birth spot, were built around the protected woodlands. Under a preservation and woodland order, it is an offence to touch any trees without the permission of the city council. Residents face fines of up to £1000 per tree or twice the value of the tree, whichever is greater, for chopping protected trees even when they are in their own back garden.

Loxley Valley Conservation Group are to contact all residents on the new estate, warning them of the dangers. A spokesman for the group said: “we feel perhaps people simply are not aware that trees in their garden are protected by preservation orders and woodland orders.” The planning department believes eight protected trees have been chopped down so far, and are carrying out investigations."

 

 

Site of Little Haggas Croft.jpg

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Quote below from Addy’s “Glossary of Words Used in the Neighbourhood of Sheffield”

Before commenting please note that I venture no opinion myself, this is simply an extract from the publication mentioned. Also, because I have used text recognition from a .pdf file this extract may contain errors.

QUOTE ---- THE PLACE WHERE ' ROBIN HOOD ' WAS BORN.

Under the word Haggas in the glossary will be found the following extract from Harrison's Survey, a manuscript which, as I have said on a previous page, is dated 1637 :

'Imprimis Great Haggus croft (pasture) near Robin Hood's Bower and is invironed with Loxley Firth and containeth la. 2r. 27⅕p. Item, little Haggas croft (pasture) wherein is the foundacion of an house or cottage where Robin Hood was born ; this piece is compassed about with Loxley Firth and containeth 00a. 2r. 13⅕p.’

Under the title of ' Robin Hood's Bower ' in the glossary is an extract from an old account showing that it was once the custom to set up such ' bowers ' as a part of the ceremonies attending a country feast or merrymaking. No English scholar would now be bold enough to assert that such a person as 'Robin Hood' ever existed in the flesh. Robin Hood, or Robin Wood, is as mythical a personage as any of the ancient heroes of romance and song,* and the statement of Harrison, therefore, that a man who bore this name was born in Bradfield is to be received as a piece of popular fiction existing in that village exactly two hundred and fifty years ago. Many places have claimed to be the birthplace of this hero of the woods, as many cities have claimed to be the birthplace of Homer. I confess to some surprise at seeing such a statement in so formal a document as a survey of land, written at such a respectable distance of time. It cannot have been the invention of the surveyor himself. He must have heard it from the lips of men who then occupied that secluded village, and probably the belief had long been current that some man of prowess had once inhabited these wilds, had stolen the king's deer, and accomplished feats of bravery and generosity. I remember, when riding on a coach in Scotland, hearing the coachman, as we passed by a ruined cottage, say : ' Gentlemen, this is one of the houses where Rob Roy was born.' And here we have learnt on a much earlier authority that Bradfield was one of the places where ' Robin Hood ' was born.

A tradition of this kind, however, is not to be regarded as of no importance. For the people of Bradfield it doubtless once had a full significance. The tradition may have been the dim remembrance of the exploits of some forgotten hero. It is certain that, before the dawn of written history, men had settled in considerable numbers in this place. If the great tracts of moorland would only furnish a scanty subsistence for cattle, there was grass land, however coarse, which required no clearing, and which nature had left in readiness for the plough and for pasturage. Flint arrowheads are still abundantly found in Bradfield. Yet there is no flint found in this district. The field-names speak, if sometimes mysteriously yet with no uncertain sound, of men whose history has not been written, but who have left some few traces on the soil of the mode of life which they led. The great earthwork known as Bailey Hill, originally, in my opinion, a burial mound, and afterwards doubtless the place of the old folk-moot, or village assembly, and the scene of many a religious rite, is a lasting witness of the degree of civilization to which the men of this district had attained before the coming of the invaders of whom history has left some record. If such a place were settled early, if it contained a considerable number of men who practised the arts of husbandry, and who lived in some degree of rude comfort, we may be sure that it would not escape the rapacious eyes of those daring adventurers who came here from the north west of Europe. Probably the Norse invader robbed or made slaves of the old inhabitants. At all events he established in Bradfield, as has been already shown, the birelaws of his own country.

It must, however, be said that the contests or rivalries of the early inhabitants of this country and their invaders seem too remote to have been the origin of the fine ballad literature and of the stories which have gathered round the name of 'Robin Hood.' We must look to a later time for the fuller development of the minstrelsy which, amongst all half-civilised men, takes for its theme the hero of the battle or the chase. And we must look for our hero ' Robin Hood,' not in the Scandinavian warrior who quaffed wine from the skull of his enemy, but in the bold and gentle archer of the woods, whose chiefest fault the crime of deer-stealing was counted almost for a virtue by the people. Amongst all the acts which have been regarded as crimes in the eye of that power which compels the weak to obey the strong the offence of poaching has always been regarded with leniency, if not with favour. The firths or enclosed woods of Bradfield, the great deer park in the valley of Rivelin, with its once magnificent timber these and the deeper and wilder fastnesses of this ancient abode of man were a fitting home for a hero-archer such as Eigil was. How is it that the ballads tell us that 'Robin Hood' was born at Locksley in Nottinghamshire? There is no such town as Locksley in that county. Ritson appears to have relied on a modern ballad which he printed, entitled ' Robin Hood's Birth, Breeding, Valour, and Marriage.' This ballad contains the stanza :

' In Locksly town, in merry Nottinghamshire, In merry, sweet Locksly town, There bold Robin Hood he was born and was bred, Bold Robin of famous renown. '

The lines are evidently a modern fabrication of very late date. In this book of the surveyor, John Harrison, we have a statement which is certainly much older than this so-called ballad, and which, rightly or wrongly, fixes the birthplace of the hero-archer 'Robin Hood' at Loxley in Bradfield.

Footnote *      The tales about ' Robin Hood ' were long ago believed to be fables. Withals, in his Diet., ed. 1616, p. 580, has ' Siculae nugae, gerrae, Robinhoodes tales.' Sicula nugas means Sicilian nonsense, trifles, stuff, fables.

UNQUOTE.

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ROBIN, I also read the piece about trees and it all seemed familiar now that the Council has been accused of tree vandalism!

Hagg(as?)stones is in Worrall, a place not too distant from either Loxley or Bradfield and it faces Wharncliffe Chase.

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Robin probably only used the forest in summertime, since it would have been an awful place to be in the winter. Something they got around in the Flynn movie by having it the much warmer climate of America. Though they painted the tree leaves green because some of them lost the colour and they also had to make them greener for the technicolor system!

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1 hour ago, boginspro said:

Quote below from Addy’s “Glossary of Words Used in the Neighbourhood of Sheffield”

Before commenting please note that I venture no opinion myself, this is simply an extract from the publication mentioned. Also, because I have used text recognition from a .pdf file this extract may contain errors.

QUOTE ---- THE PLACE WHERE ' ROBIN HOOD ' WAS BORN.

Under the word Haggas in the glossary will be found the following extract from Harrison's Survey, a manuscript which, as I have said on a previous page, is dated 1637 :

'Imprimis Great Haggus croft (pasture) near Robin Hood's Bower and is invironed with Loxley Firth and containeth la. 2r. 27⅕p. Item, little Haggas croft (pasture) wherein is the foundacion of an house or cottage where Robin Hood was born ; this piece is compassed about with Loxley Firth and containeth 00a. 2r. 13⅕p.’

Under the title of ' Robin Hood's Bower ' in the glossary is an extract from an old account showing that it was once the custom to set up such ' bowers ' as a part of the ceremonies attending a country feast or merrymaking. No English scholar would now be bold enough to assert that such a person as 'Robin Hood' ever existed in the flesh. Robin Hood, or Robin Wood, is as mythical a personage as any of the ancient heroes of romance and song,* and the statement of Harrison, therefore, that a man who bore this name was born in Bradfield is to be received as a piece of popular fiction existing in that village exactly two hundred and fifty years ago. Many places have claimed to be the birthplace of this hero of the woods, as many cities have claimed to be the birthplace of Homer. I confess to some surprise at seeing such a statement in so formal a document as a survey of land, written at such a respectable distance of time. It cannot have been the invention of the surveyor himself. He must have heard it from the lips of men who then occupied that secluded village, and probably the belief had long been current that some man of prowess had once inhabited these wilds, had stolen the king's deer, and accomplished feats of bravery and generosity. I remember, when riding on a coach in Scotland, hearing the coachman, as we passed by a ruined cottage, say : ' Gentlemen, this is one of the houses where Rob Roy was born.' And here we have learnt on a much earlier authority that Bradfield was one of the places where ' Robin Hood ' was born.

A tradition of this kind, however, is not to be regarded as of no importance. For the people of Bradfield it doubtless once had a full significance. The tradition may have been the dim remembrance of the exploits of some forgotten hero. It is certain that, before the dawn of written history, men had settled in considerable numbers in this place. If the great tracts of moorland would only furnish a scanty subsistence for cattle, there was grass land, however coarse, which required no clearing, and which nature had left in readiness for the plough and for pasturage. Flint arrowheads are still abundantly found in Bradfield. Yet there is no flint found in this district. The field-names speak, if sometimes mysteriously yet with no uncertain sound, of men whose history has not been written, but who have left some few traces on the soil of the mode of life which they led. The great earthwork known as Bailey Hill, originally, in my opinion, a burial mound, and afterwards doubtless the place of the old folk-moot, or village assembly, and the scene of many a religious rite, is a lasting witness of the degree of civilization to which the men of this district had attained before the coming of the invaders of whom history has left some record. If such a place were settled early, if it contained a considerable number of men who practised the arts of husbandry, and who lived in some degree of rude comfort, we may be sure that it would not escape the rapacious eyes of those daring adventurers who came here from the north west of Europe. Probably the Norse invader robbed or made slaves of the old inhabitants. At all events he established in Bradfield, as has been already shown, the birelaws of his own country.

It must, however, be said that the contests or rivalries of the early inhabitants of this country and their invaders seem too remote to have been the origin of the fine ballad literature and of the stories which have gathered round the name of 'Robin Hood.' We must look to a later time for the fuller development of the minstrelsy which, amongst all half-civilised men, takes for its theme the hero of the battle or the chase. And we must look for our hero ' Robin Hood,' not in the Scandinavian warrior who quaffed wine from the skull of his enemy, but in the bold and gentle archer of the woods, whose chiefest fault the crime of deer-stealing was counted almost for a virtue by the people. Amongst all the acts which have been regarded as crimes in the eye of that power which compels the weak to obey the strong the offence of poaching has always been regarded with leniency, if not with favour. The firths or enclosed woods of Bradfield, the great deer park in the valley of Rivelin, with its once magnificent timber these and the deeper and wilder fastnesses of this ancient abode of man were a fitting home for a hero-archer such as Eigil was. How is it that the ballads tell us that 'Robin Hood' was born at Locksley in Nottinghamshire? There is no such town as Locksley in that county. Ritson appears to have relied on a modern ballad which he printed, entitled ' Robin Hood's Birth, Breeding, Valour, and Marriage.' This ballad contains the stanza :

' In Locksly town, in merry Nottinghamshire, In merry, sweet Locksly town, There bold Robin Hood he was born and was bred, Bold Robin of famous renown. '

The lines are evidently a modern fabrication of very late date. In this book of the surveyor, John Harrison, we have a statement which is certainly much older than this so-called ballad, and which, rightly or wrongly, fixes the birthplace of the hero-archer 'Robin Hood' at Loxley in Bradfield.

Footnote *      The tales about ' Robin Hood ' were long ago believed to be fables. Withals, in his Diet., ed. 1616, p. 580, has ' Siculae nugae, gerrae, Robinhoodes tales.' Sicula nugas means Sicilian nonsense, trifles, stuff, fables.

UNQUOTE.

If we need to confirm Robin's place of birth we can always fall back on Robin's pardon that reads: “Robert Hode otherwise known as Robert Dore of Waddeslay in the county of Yorkshire received the Kings pardon May 22nd, 1382”. (Roll of King’s Pardons 4-5 Richard II 1382).

The Wadsley family were the lords of the manor and Loxley was a sub vill. of Wadsley. 

What is good about the pardon is that there are several places in England called Loxley. It simply means a forest clearing. The inclusion of Wadsley in the pardon confirms it is the Yorkshire Loxley. 

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37 minutes ago, lysander said:

ROBIN, I also read the piece about trees and it all seemed familiar now that the Council has been accused of tree vandalism!

Hagg(as?)stones is in Worrall, a place not too distant from either Loxley or Bradfield and it faces Wharncliffe Chase.

I think with the council, it is a case of "do as I say, not as I do."

Credit due though, they do take into consideration the age of the tree and whether or not it poses a risk to the public.

I always think of meat stews when I read about Haggas Croft. I don't know if you are aware that Loxley falls within ancient Northumbria. The boundary is the River Don. The field system is the same as the Scots method of farming.

But thinking about the coal and ganister that was extracted, I am sure the area was extremely rocky. 

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I am aware that we are in a border area between Northumbria and Mercia...In fact in geological terms we are also roughly on the border between lowland and highland Britain. Ganister was extracted until the decimation of our steel industry in order to make furnace refractories and many of the places mentioned had an interest in ganister mining.

I am unsure about the dates being mentioned. In an early entry we see that Robin was said to have been born at Loxley in 1160 and yet it took 222 years for him to be pardoned if the Robin mentioned in King Richard 11's pardon of 1382 is the same one. Would this posthumous pardon be normal?

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11 hours ago, History dude said:

Robin probably only used the forest in summertime, since it would have been an awful place to be in the winter. Something they got around in the Flynn movie by having it the much warmer climate of America. Though they painted the tree leaves green because some of them lost the colour and they also had to make them greener for the technicolor system!

You make a good point, but just to add, merchants made a good living and a merchants house was quite spectacular. I sometimes wonder if they wove, dyed and made cloth in the winter and went round the markets in the spring, summer and autumn? 

About the cold, the Geste has this, translation mine.

Quote

After their meal when the sun was setting, Robin told Little John to change into his green coat. Taking off his trousers, shoes and tunic, he put on his fur-lined coat and lay down to sleep, as did the others. The arrogant sheriff in his breeches and shirt got colder and colder through the night. “Make glad cheer,” said Robin, “In our order, we live this way when we sleep under the greenwood tree.” “You have a hard order,” said the Sheriff, “even hermits and friars don’t suffer this way. I will not stay here for all the gold in Merry England.” “Sheriff,” said Robin, “you will live in the forest with me and my men for the next 12 months and I will teach you about life in the greenwood.” “Robin now I pray you,” said the sheriff “Let me go for Saint Charity and I will be the best friend you ever had.” “You will swear me an oath,” said Robin. “On my bright sword and promise me you will never harm me, either on water or on land. Furthermore, you will promise to help my men at all times.” The Sheriff swore his oath and began his journey home. Robin had beaten the sheriff of Nottingham.

 

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10 hours ago, lysander said:

I am aware that we are in a border area between Northumbria and Mercia...In fact in geological terms we are also roughly on the border between lowland and highland Britain. Ganister was extracted until the decimation of our steel industry in order to make furnace refractories and many of the places mentioned had an interest in ganister mining.

I am unsure about the dates being mentioned. In an early entry we see that Robin was said to have been born at Loxley in 1160 and yet it took 222 years for him to be pardoned if the Robin mentioned in King Richard 11's pardon of 1382 is the same one. Would this posthumous pardon be normal?

The particular document you quote (Sloane Manuscript) was written in a very 'crabbed' style of writing. It was almost illegible. As they used Roman numerals it was even more difficult to decipher dates.  The pardon received by Robin was for events in the reign of Richard II. The experts make these comments:


Barbara A. Buxton writes, “The legal and royal records for the reigns of Richard I and King John are quite adequate to detail Robin’s offences, but they do not. Neither is the name of the sheriff ever mentioned even though the names of sheriffs were recorded as far back as 1135. There were no friars in the England of King John, the first came to England in 1221.

Professor Holt confirms the above, saying Robin was active in the later medieval period. He writes, “the “Geste of Robin Hood” was written circa 1450 and all the literature, the setting and the dates are in this later medieval period. “Major’s conception about a 13th century Robin Hood was not reinforced by argument, evidence, or proof it was simply recycled through later versions of the tale and so became part of the legend. Neither is this view supported by the earliest ballads, they name the reigning monarch as “Edward.”

This accords with Professor Thomas Ohlgren who writes the Geste was “commissioned by one of the fifteenth-century guilds-possibly the Dyers Guild in the light of the many references to cloth and liveries-to commemorate Edward III not only as the protector of the English Channel but as the founder of seven of the twelve Great Livery Companies.

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A visit to any weaving area will show that as much light as possible was needed when weaving. I had a friend living in an old 17th C weavers cottage in Scapegoat, Huddersfield  The south facing side of his cottage was a mass of glazing...which must have been a great expense to install. Most merchants did as their name suggests...they merchanted by buying and selling  and avoided manufacturing anything...Hence the profitability of being a merchant ( just as it is today)

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12 minutes ago, lysander said:

I am aware that we are in a border area between Northumbria and Mercia...In fact in geological terms we are also roughly on the border between lowland and highland Britain. Ganister was extracted until the decimation of our steel industry in order to make furnace refractories and many of the places mentioned had an interest in ganister mining.

I am unsure about the dates being mentioned. In an early entry we see that Robin was said to have been born at Loxley in 1160 and yet it took 222 years for him to be pardoned if the Robin mentioned in King Richard 11's pardon of 1382 is the same one. Would this posthumous pardon be normal?

I was talking to someone the other day and they told me Ganister is still used today in the rolling of special glass.

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Could be. I know very little about glass save Sheffield University was once a leader in the field of glass technology.

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4 minutes ago, lysander said:

A visit to any weaving area will show that as much light as possible was needed when weaving. I had a friend living in an old 17th C weavers cottage in Scapegoat, Huddersfield  The south facing side of his cottage was a mass of glazing...which must have been a great expense to install. Most merchants did as their name suggests...they merchanted by buying and selling  and avoided manufacturing anything...Hence the profitability of being a merchant ( just as it is today)

Yes, the upstairs window went the whole length of the house. 

It was Edward III who set up the first guilds and in the early days the master mucked in with the rest of the men. As time went on they became business men and it evolved in the way you say.

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1 minute ago, lysander said:

Could be. I know very little about glass save Sheffield University was once a leader in the field of glass technology.

We are talking about glass the size of a house wall and almost as thick. (slight exaggeration. ;-))

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Dictionary.com defines 'bower' (2) as being a cottage. 
bower
noun
(1) a leafy shelter or recess; arbor.
(2) a rustic dwelling; cottage.
(3) a lady's boudoir in a medieval castle.

S. O. ADDY, M.A. also defines Robin Hood's Bower as being a cottage.

A tradition is recorded in 1637 that Robin Hood was born in Loxley Firth. The passage in Harrison's Survey of that year is as follows:

Imprimis Great Haggas Croft (pasture) lying near Robin Hood's Bower (cottage) & is invironed with 'Loxley Firth & Cont. 1-2-27

On the map below, we have Bower Cottage and I think it is fair to say it is invironed with 'Loxley Firth.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this regarding Robin Hood's cottage, please?

 

Map Bower Cottage Loxley.jpg

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Here's part of the debate that was going on in 1931. (In 1939 Willis Crookes was still living at Normandale House, was 80 years old, and making his living from horse breeding and cattle feed)

1742208851_NormandaleHouse1931.thumb.png.db4c1072fab582cd8beafc975cf179cb.png

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1 hour ago, Edmund said:

Here's part of the debate that was going on in 1931. (In 1939 Willis Crookes was still living at Normandale House, was 80 years old, and making his living from horse breeding and cattle feed)

1742208851_NormandaleHouse1931.thumb.png.db4c1072fab582cd8beafc975cf179cb.png

Thanks. The Sloane manuscript, that was written in France by John Major, or rather those who have attempted to decipher it, have a lot to answer for. The kings living at the time of Robin Hood were, it is true, kings John; Richard, and Henry, but we know from Robin's pardon dated 1382 that the kings of his day were King John of France, King Richard II and Henry Bolingbroke. There were no friars in England at the time of King John. Furthermore, the Geste of Robin Hood which corrects the mistakes of the Sloane MS that was an early draft, tell us the king for most of Robin's life was Edward our comely king, i.e. Edward III.

This is supported by no less a person than Professor Holt who writes, "the Geste of Robin Hood was written circa 1450 and all the literature, the setting and the dates are in this later medieval period. “Major’s conception about a 13th century Robin Hood was not reinforced by argument, evidence, or proof it was simply recycled through later versions of the tale and so became part of the legend. Neither is this view supported by the earliest ballads, they name the reigning monarch as “Edward.”

Neither is Normandale House invironed with Loxley Firth. 

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Hia Robin, in ref to Little John's Grave, I don't live in Hathersage. Never heard the story about the Blacksmith. The info and knowledge came from my Grandmother who was farming country born and bred.So I had no reason to question her info. Never heard of Little John's Chair, or anything about a thigh bone.

The fascination with Robin Hood never stops, so many studies have been done in the past, all with conflicting info on the details I have never read any that completely agree with another. About 11 years ago, I read a study by a gentleman who put Robin Hood - Robert le Hod, in Rawmarsh, Sheffield, Bawtry, Worksop, London, Edwinstowe Sherwood Forest. He quoted that various authorities had arrested and fined him for theft and poaching on the Royal Estates, but it was said of him to be a 'Likeable Rogue'. Within the years 1166 to 1213.

For years, people have done research on who they truly believe to be Robin Hood, coming up with such a wide variety of info details, no matter how indepth the study. This is why I say we will probably never really know the ACTUAL full truth about Robin Hood.

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12 hours ago, Heartshome said:

Hia Robin, in ref to Little John's Grave, I don't live in Hathersage. Never heard the story about the Blacksmith. The info and knowledge came from my Grandmother who was farming country born and bred.So I had no reason to question her info. Never heard of Little John's Chair, or anything about a thigh bone.

The fascination with Robin Hood never stops, so many studies have been done in the past, all with conflicting info on the details I have never read any that completely agree with another. About 11 years ago, I read a study by a gentleman who put Robin Hood - Robert le Hod, in Rawmarsh, Sheffield, Bawtry, Worksop, London, Edwinstowe Sherwood Forest. He quoted that various authorities had arrested and fined him for theft and poaching on the Royal Estates, but it was said of him to be a 'Likeable Rogue'. Within the years 1166 to 1213.

For years, people have done research on who they truly believe to be Robin Hood, coming up with such a wide variety of info details, no matter how indepth the study. This is why I say we will probably never really know the ACTUAL full truth about Robin Hood.

First let me apologise for being a little sharp last time round. The truth of the matter is, there are many people called Robin Hood and here is a list the author claims to be comprehensive, but it is shorter than other lists I have seen and I notice they do not include Robin of Loxley otherwise known as Robin Hood.   http://www.robinhoodlegend.com/robin-hod-surnames/

I speak to many people on the internet who all have their own traditions. You know what they say about Chinese Whispers for example and how things get changed in the telling. Whether these Robin Hoods were the real Robin Hood is another matter altogether. They cannot all be. Professor Holt, for example, made short work of the Nottingham candidate and the authoritative “Complete Peerage” Volume 6 speaking about Nottingham’s candidate says, “Robin Hood (for whose existence, no contemporary evidence has been found) was first called Robert fitz Ooth in a fictitious pedigree concocted by the 18th century antiquary William Stukeley.”

People write to me and say, “My name is Robert Hood do you think I am a descendant?” Another person, surname Littlejohn thinks he is a descendant of the Hathersage man. It was a nickname for crying out loud.

Until someone found contemporary evidence in the form of his pardon, that locates Robin in our neck of the woods, and associates him with Gisbourne at a time when “the authentic Robin Hood ballads that were the poetic expression of popular aspirations in the north of England during a turbulent era of baronial rebellions and agrarian discontent.” (Encyclopaedia Britannica) nobody actually knew who Robin Hood was. How people can write books and not know who the central character was, seems little short of insanity. The legendary hero has always been Robin Hood otherwise known as Robin of Loxley. Robin of Loxley is our starting point, and it rules out Robin of Nottingham, Robin of Rawmarsh, Robin of Wakefield etc. etc.

One 'proof' the academics require is that the real Robin Hood needs to be related to the prioress who killed him and lo-and-behold we have the prioress in Loxley named Alice de Mounteney. In short Robin of Loxley conforms both to history and to the 'Geste of Robin Hood.' When all three, legend; the Geste, and history agree, then we cannot be far from the actual truth. 

I urge you to read here and if you have any questions, I will endeavour to answer them. https://robinhood-loxley.weebly.com

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1 hour ago, R0BIN said:

First let me apologise for being a little sharp last time round. The truth of the matter is, there are many people called Robin Hood and here is a list the author claims to be comprehensive, but it is shorter than other lists I have seen and I notice they do not include Robin of Loxley otherwise known as Robin Hood.   http://www.robinhoodlegend.com/robin-hod-surnames/

I speak to many people on the internet who all have their own traditions. You know what they say about Chinese Whispers for example and how things get changed in the telling. Whether these Robin Hoods were the real Robin Hood is another matter altogether. They cannot all be. Professor Holt, for example, made short work of the Nottingham candidate and the authoritative “Complete Peerage” Volume 6 speaking about Nottingham’s candidate says, “Robin Hood (for whose existence, no contemporary evidence has been found) was first called Robert fitz Ooth in a fictitious pedigree concocted by the 18th century antiquary William Stukeley.”

People write to me and say, “My name is Robert Hood do you think I am a descendant?” Another person, surname Littlejohn thinks he is a descendant of the Hathersage man. It was a nickname for crying out loud.

Until someone found contemporary evidence in the form of his pardon, that locates Robin in our neck of the woods, and associates him with Gisbourne at a time when “the authentic Robin Hood ballads that were the poetic expression of popular aspirations in the north of England during a turbulent era of baronial rebellions and agrarian discontent.” (Encyclopaedia Britannica) nobody actually knew who Robin Hood was. How people can write books and not know who the central character was, seems little short of insanity. The legendary hero has always been Robin Hood otherwise known as Robin of Loxley. Robin of Loxley is our starting point, and it rules out Robin of Nottingham, Robin of Rawmarsh, Robin of Wakefield etc. etc.

One 'proof' the academics require is that the real Robin Hood needs to be related to the prioress who killed him and lo-and-behold we have the prioress in Loxley named Alice de Mounteney. In short Robin of Loxley conforms both to history and to the 'Geste of Robin Hood.' When all three, legend; the Geste, and history agree, then we cannot be far from the actual truth. 

I urge you to read here and if you have any questions, I will endeavour to answer them. https://robinhood-loxley.weebly.com

It's a pretty good comparison. It's also nice to think that Robin was a Yorkshire lad.

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