Calvin72 Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Hello All, The Nether Edge local history group have been asking for thoughts (or answers!) about a series of holes in an old supporting wall at the end of Montgomery Road. I have found a landslip that occurred there in 1988. Is this related? 1988 pictures from PictureSheffield; http://www.picturesheffield.com/frontend.php?keywords=Ref_No_increment;EQUALS;t06011&pos=3&action=zoom&id=93694, http://www.picturesheffield.com/frontend.php?keywords=Ref_No_increment;EQUALS;t06012&pos=4&action=zoom&id=93695 Recent pictures below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Annington Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Are they 'weep holes' i.e. the ground level on the other side of the wall is higher than this side, so the holes are there to allow water to escape, otherwise the ground could become saturated and heavy to a point where the pressure build up could cause the wall to collapse/topple over. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLongden Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Exactly what I was just about to suggest, freakily with the same wiki link! Makes perfect sense, to try and prevent the wall collapsing again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tozzin Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 They could be weep holes but it seems there are too many, too close together and pretty high up on the wall, usually weep holes are nearer the floor. Plus there's no sign of water marks on the wall, at a guess I would say that some kind of frame work was held here, just a guess mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
History dude Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 The holes appear to run in sequence suggest a structure of some kind. The remind me of the footings for joists that would hold a floor or perhaps a roof structure that would have been on the other side of the wall. It would help if we had an old map of the road to pinpoint what was there in the past. Looking at the close up of the wall some rebuilding work has taken place. The mortar between the stones suggest that too. How extensive this was depends on the rest of the wall, but the main picture doesn't have the level of detail to show this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonr2z Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 That wall is right at the south end of Montgomery Rd where it joins Machon Bank Road (you can actually see the section of wall very clearly on Google Maps. Immediately behind the wall, Edge Bank bends round up to Meadow Bank, so although weep holes are a possibility you also need to bear in mind that those houses were owned by well heeled Victorians and Edwardians and it is likely there would have been outhouses and stables attached to their properties. As per History Dude I'm inclined to think they may well have been joist holes. I was raised on Wostenholm Road in the 60's and 70's and many of the houses on both roads still had traces of old stable buildings if not the actual stables themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonr2z Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 http://maps.nls.uk/view/100950110 This is a map of the area in 1894! The house at Edge Bank exists, but it predates the creation of Meadow Bank Ave (friend lived there many years ago and think he said was built c 1910). There appears to be a yard between the house on Edge Bank and Montgomery Rd but no buildings on the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voldy Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Comparing the 'Street View' site with the first photograph in Calvin72's post it seems that far more repointing work has taken place on this wall since the Google street view was undertaken.. It would have needed a substantial form of working platform both in its original construction and for future repair and maintenance. The latest work has given more prominence to what are most likely to be the holes into which appropriate joists or scaffold poles were inserted to support strong working platforms necessary for this type of structure. The repaired section has circular weep holes at its base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
History dude Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 28 minutes ago, Voldy said: Comparing the 'Street View' site with the first photograph in Calvin72's post it seems that far more repointing work has taken place on this wall since the Google street view was undertaken.. It would have needed a substantial form of working platform both in its original construction and for future repair and maintenance. The latest work has given more prominence to what are most likely to be the holes into which appropriate joists or scaffold poles were inserted to support strong working platforms necessary for this type of structure. The repaired section has circular weep holes at its base. I don't think the holes are for scaffolding. In fact leaving them in would weaken the structure. Scaffolding even these days leaves no visible signs in the structure itself. The idea for scaffolding is that you add it on in layers as you go higher, then take it down in the same way. The holes could be for machinery. Mills for example might have iron beams in the to take the weight of the machines. Fixed into the wall, these would take weight of the machine, putting the load on the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tozzin Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 They could be where some kind of advertising board was fixed along the wall, as these were quite popular for advitising anything from buying clothes, train timetables ect, you will not see scaffolding holes on modern buildings " Putlog Holes" as they are called, as its now against H&S to connect scaffolding to the building. You can still see Putlog Holes on many medieval castles around the country even today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin72 Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 Thanks everyone! Although the 1988 landslip seems like a good clue the wall, and possibly the holes, are a great deal older than that. It probably dates back to the mid 19th century at least. The last issue of the neighbourhood magazine raised the question and no definitive answer so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysander Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 They are so neat and regular as to look like an architectural feature? I wonder,has anyone investigated to see if they extend the full width of the wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tozzin Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 5 hours ago, andy1702 said: I think they are for inserting wooden poles into to provide a working platform for finishing off the top of the wall. You can see similar holes on tbe outside of most castles. No, they are too close together, I've already mentioned castles and if you look at the Putlog holes they are at least six feet apart, the average Batten length today is around eight to ten feet which means only three Putlogs would be used. I don't know how old the wall is but wooden poles were used lashed together and these were used right up to the 1950s. I still think it's some kind of framework holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysander Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 If that was the case ,andy, don't you think the top ones are just a bit too high for anyone working on the top course...after all, its only a foot or so from the top...the builder would have to bend down to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voldy Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 I agree with andy1702, consider how high you would want to lift a heavy coping stone if you were putting it in place,not above waist level would be my limit. Easier to stoop than stretch working all day on stone walls! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysander Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 The top stones are literally a couple of feet above the mystery holes and I know that I would much prefer to place them from waist height than bend over...bearing in mind that the advice for lifting is to bend ones legs rather than bending ones spine. Good job 'Elfn'safety weren't around years ago , methinks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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