Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
miked

Mertnall Ecclesfield

Recommended Posts

Hi

I would be most grateful if someone could tell me where Mertnall was. It is given in the Cutlers Company records as the address of Isaac Dyson. 1792. On his grave it said he was from Ecclesfield Common.

Thanks

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking forward to an answer to this one - never heard of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, I'm not afraid to go out on a limb here ...

Could Mertnall be an error meant to be Mortomley, in which case either it was misspelled outright or it simply appears to be that which it is not.

Is the handwriting clearly "Mertnall" ?

Maybe the "ey" on the end is missing ... either missing over time given the document's age, or the pen skipped ?

Mortomley is about as close as you can get to Ecclesfield, and appears phonetically, at least, somewhat similar to Mertnall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Better a reasonable suggestion than nothing.

Dyson name known and well distributed out Oughtibridge/Bolsterstone way - just a comment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi,

Thanks for your thoughts, and all the way from the USA.

The source so far is Leaders, "History of the Cutlers Company" , I never thought of a mis-spelling, though I know he said they had weird abbreviations. I will try and view the original insertion when things settle after Christmas.

I dont suppose Mertnall has got to be on Ecclesfield Common which was on his grave or register, not sure which.

In the Cutler Company records, it says, apparently, Mertnall Ecclesfield. I may be making an assumption.

I think we will be lucky to solve this.

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Better a reasonable suggestion than nothing.

Dyson name known and well distributed out Oughtibridge/Bolsterstone way - just a comment.

Snag is there are just too many Dysons in our area. and usually called John or William. Isaac even married another Dyson in 1791.

Going back in time from Shotnall or Shotnell. They originated from Holme, near Holmfirth, not too far away from where the genetic people say they all originated from; A village called Linthwaite.

A William Dyson came down to Bradfield and married another Dyson at Ecclesfield in 1720. His son William became a pocket knife cutler. (He is in the Gales and Martin directory.) His son, William, fathered our Isaac born 1763-1829. He too had a son called William who was deaf and dumb and a barber at Stocks Hill.

I heard that there is at least one descendant still living in Ecclesfield but I have not been able to find her. Someone called, Lynsey) She might know the answer.

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have seen Mortomley misspelled and/or mistranscribed as Mortanby in the 1841 census record.

Per this source there is no Mertnall anywhere in Yorkshire.... there is however a Morton Hall a few miles south of Edinburgh, Scotland:

http://books.google....tonhall&f=false

Mike (yet another one)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Phonetically and linguistically in Yorkshire I can imagine a placename like Morton Hall being spoken as, and hence written as, Mort'n'all or Mert'n 'all ... as in: sooner or later somebody in Ecclesfield might write it exactly as they heard it, circa 1792.

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shotnall or Shotnell etc. The farmstead where Isaac was born dated back to the 1600,s . When it was demolished (1960,s) the name disappeared with it. You will be lucky to find it now. I suspect the same may be true of Mertnall. Two weird names.

There is nothing to suggest Isaac was a cutler/farmer, like his father, but he may well have had a duel occupation. It was the norm.

I have tried to find a definition for Mert, finding none in English. There are French and Turkish similar words but they don't fit. Not found a Scandinavian version yet.

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you sure that the "e" in Mertnall is not maybe an "o" ?

I'm not suggesting that Morton Hall (or Mortonhall) up near Edinburgh is the placename in question, but that doesn't discount the possibility that, like you say, there may once have been an 18th century farm or house somewhere near Ecclesfield with a name similar to what appears as "Mertnall" on the document -- something more like Mortonhall, and that it was simply misspelled phonentically as Mertnall or Mortnall (i.e. Mort'n'all).

A lot depends too on if the document may have been drawn-up in a hurry where the handwriting appears hasty and errored, as opposed to deliberate and carefully spelled.

All in all these kinds of puzzlements are thoroughly entertaining. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shotnall or Shotnell etc. The farmstead where Isaac was born dated back to the 1600,s . When it was demolished (1960,s) the name disappeared with it. You will be lucky to find it now. I suspect the same may be true of Mertnall. Two weird names. There is nothing to suggest Isaac was a cutler/farmer, like his father, but he may well have had a duel occupation. It was the norm. I have tried to find a definition for Mert, finding none in English. There are French and Turkish similar words but they don't fit. Not found a Scandinavian version yet. Mike

I have found a Dyson Family at Shotnall in the 1841 Census not that it will help much in this Quest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The census pic is a better copy than mine. interesting in that it has Beeleywood forge. The enumerators did not always note duel occupations.

I copied this from Leaders book 1905, I think. It does have abbreviations that will have been copied quite accurately it seems. Mertnall does not look abbreviated. The handwriting in the original book tends to be good. I will check.

K = Knifemaker

F = When he registered as a freeman.

There is another Isaac as well

Thanks for help

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't that a reference to an individual named William Mertnall? rather than a place? Maybe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't that a reference to an individual named William Mertnall? rather than a place? Maybe?

Hi,

They are all dysons in that section. They were very economical with their paper or writing. I have just about got all their history except for Mertnall. We just it to pop up in another document. I will try the local studied again. There might be a map. Its annoying

Thanks

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't that a reference to an individual named William Mertnall? rather than a place? Maybe?

I can find no referance to that name in any Census Records..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can find no referance to that name in any Census Records..

No that is my error I think - there are 2 Issacs - one the son of Charles and one the son of William?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There wasn't a Merton Hall or something was there? Just thinking there is a Merton Lane at Wincobank and wondered if there was a connection.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There wasn't a Merton Hall or something was there? Just thinking there is a Merton Lane at Wincobank and wondered if there was a connection.

I wondered that Syl though Peter Harvey says Merton Lane was originally called Malthouse Lane and was renamed after Merton in London in 1903! I suppose there must have been another Malthouse Lane in Sheffield at the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shotnall Farm was on Stubbing House Lane - presumably demolished about the same time as Stubbing House, where my **gf was born in 1797. If you go to"Picture Sheffield" and search for Upper Hurst, you'll find a pic taken from Birley Edge. Shotnall is the building lower right. I also have a photo taken about 1890 of Shotnall from Upper Hurst, courtesy of a relation in USA. This does not help the original query, but I can confirm the Dyson link to Shotnall.

Andrew

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Andrew,

Only just seen your interesting reply. I still don't know where Mertnall was and looks doubtful if I ever will.

however I have just about finished my research on Shotnell which does touch on Stubbing since it was connected in its early period.

I have seen the pic on "Picture Sheffield" and used some photos from just before it was demolished. I have tried to reconstruct the building with a drawing but I have some blind spots. I am fairly sure I now know where the workshop was.

Also just discovered on this site that an Aeron Walker (Stubbing connection?) married a Wyke of Skew Hill, I am a also descendent of the Wykes.

I will try and send you a message

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×