The "other" Grindstone

[RichardB]

At one point there were TWO Grindstones at the bottom of Crookes, they faced each other across the Street, any information gratefully received.

Many Thanks

[Dave Milner]

At one point there were TWO Grindstones at the bottom of Crookes, they faced each other across the Street, any information gratefully received. Many Thanks

Yes, the "Original Grindstone" (as the other one was called) was about a 100 yards further up on the opposite side of the road, roughly opposite the bottom of Bute Street. I used to deliver newspapers there (as well as to the "Old Grindstone") in the 1960s.

It was demolished in the late 60s to make way for the flats that are there now & putting in the curve that joins Crookes to Crookes Road, previously it was 90 degree junction.

When the buses had the open entrance at the back & this old junction was still in place, quite often men getting off on there way home from work would jump off as it went round this bend as it had to slow down so much.

I've attached a picture of the Original Grindstone & a picture looking up Crookes with the bottom of Bute Street on the left & the shop on the far right is the same shop that is on the far left of the Original Grindstone picture.

Both pictures are from "Crookes Revistied" published 1989, ISBN: 0 9508064 1 2

Hope this works as it's my first post.

http://www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/forums/uploads/monthly_04_2007/post-590-1175850524.jpghttp://www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/forums/uploads/monthly_04_2007/post-590-1175850563.jpg

[RichardB]

Hope this works as it's my first post.

Brilliant, Thank You

Everyone has a first post, then it gets easier, even I can manage it !

And Welcome and stuff, and do you have a picture of the outside of Redgates, showing the sign - it's an obsession here ....

[Sheffield History]

and do you have a picture of the outside of Redgates, showing the sign - it's an obsession here ....

You're not kidding !

Welcome to Sheffield History Dave - enjoy the site !

[HughW]

I can't recall the details but I was told (by Martin Olive I think) that a licensee of the Old Grindstone was forced to leave because of financial difficulties. Angry about the loss of the pub, he then opened the Old Original Grindstone giving it a mocking name.

Joseph Bingham, who is listed in the main list as landlord in 1893, was a monumental mason. He was the first of at least three generations of Binghams who were Sextons of Walkley Cemetery. Though I don't think he got that job till later, he was already carving gravestones when he was landlord of the pub. There is at least one gravestone in the cemetery which has "22-24 Crookes" inscribed on it as the mason's address. I imagine him chiselling away out the back while his wife was pulling pints.

Hugh

[Edmund]

The Story of the two Grindstone Inns can now be told:

Peter Spooner was a “gentleman of fortune” the son of William Spooner a local landowner. Peter seems to have been full of his own importance, but mellowed with the years. In 1853 he married “the beautiful and accomplished” Miss Speedy in the Isle of Man.

On May 18 1839 Spooner was a witness against George Hoyle of the South Sea Hotel, in a licensing hearing alleging nuisance and opening out of hours. In 1842 Mr Spooner was a special constable for Crookes Moor and in1843 was a juror at the Spring Quarter Sessions (described as “gentleman”). At the court sessions in January 1849 he complains that he has been put on the petit (traverse) jury and not the grand jury when his income is £600 a year and lesser men than him are on the Grand Jury. In November 1849 Peter Spooner offered to pay to Frith the court clerk, 2s out of of a 4s bill of his fathers (the cost of a summons) and said he is poor so he can only pay 2 shillings. In court, “Mr Frith intimated a desire to have no further intercourse with Mr Spooner”. To his credit Spooner did later donate land for a chapel.

In 1841 Sarah Stead (45) originally from Wath, made a living as a farmers wife with her husband George at Hallam Gate. George died in 1844.

In 1850 Sarah was a farmer at Crookes and had a number of geese and fowls stolen. In December of that year her daughter Sarah married William Loxley of Crookes at Eldon Street Church. In the 1851 census Sarah Stead was recorded as a 57 year old widow and publican/farmer at the Grindstone Inn (this would have been the first inn), with her 26 year old son Thomas and 22 year old son Henry.

A dispute had been because Mr Spooner who owned the first Grindstone thought that his tenants, the Steads, who had run the pub for many years, ran a disorderly house, with dog fights and rabbit hunting. Spooner had a violent dispute with one of the Stead sons and tried to eject the family, who refused to be moved. Spooner had to resort to an ejectment action in the York Nisi Prius Court on July 18 1852. This was agreed by the court but deferred until November of that year.

In June 1852 Sarah, noted as being the licensee of the “Grindlecoke” inn had been in court regarding the alleged missing cover of well in her field allowing a horse to fall in. A Grindlecoke was an old worn out grindstone, often used for domestic purposes such as a foot-stool, seat or trivet – so the “Old” in the pub’s name did not refer to the inn itself being old but to an “old grindstone”.

The Steads built and occupied a rival Grindstone across the road and a few yards further towards Crookes. In September 1853 an application for a licence for the new “Old Original Grindstone” was disputed. Sarah’s application received many recommendations from locals including the overseers of Ecclesall and Nether Hallam, and the only opposition was from Peter Spooner and the Don Brewery. There were no reports of bad behaviour, there had been much housing built locally of late, and so the licence for the new Old Original Grindstone was granted.

After the ejectment, Spooner put in place as licensee William Machin, commencing in December 1853 and Machin had about £50 to start up with, including fitting out the inn. Spooner advanced him loans totalling £30 and Machin eventually owed Spooner an additional £50 in rent.

In April 1854 some bagatelle balls were stolen from the first “Grindstone Tavern”, the licensee William Machin was a witness in court.

On June 7 1856, William Machin , labourer and publican of the Old Grindstone was having his first examination for bankruptcy. His petition was opposed by Messrs. Smith and Redfern of the Don Brewery and also by Messrs. Carter and Smith, brewers. Machins debts were £162 and he had no assets. Spooner had advanced him loans totalling £30 and Machin eventually owed Spooner an additional £50 in rent. Business was poor and Machin did not sell an eighteen gallon barrel a fortnight ( ie less than 10 pints a day). He wished “he had been flogged along the streets with a cat-o’-nine-tails instead of ever going near the place”. After examination of his financial transactions the petition was dismissed.

On May 10 1856 James Hoole placed an advert to let pasture next to his Old Grindstone Tavern. (The first). In June he advertised for cricketers for his team as he had laid new turf.

On May 13 1859 a licence for the “Old Grindstone” (presumably the second one, ie the Old Original Grindstone) was transferred from Sarah Stead to her son-in-law William Loxley.

At the 1861 census Sarah was living at “East Side of Crookes” as a proprietoress of houses. The adjacent entry was William Loxley (43) and his wife Sarah (39) – occupation shop & Public House.

On Jan 9 1863 Charles Lawton, victualler and quarryman of the (first) Grindstone was in the bankruptcy court for examination. On May 16 1863 the transfer of licence took place from the assignees of Charles Lawton to James Morton a farm labourer from Bradfield.

On May 4 1877 Sarah Loxley of the Old Original Grindstone was fined 20s for serving after closing time, and had been previously been in trouble for offences against the Licensing Act.

In November 1878 the Old Original Grindstone was in the hands of Mr Gomersall, who advertised a Pigeon Shooting Leger.

No doubt this type of story explains why there are public houses with the same name within yards of each other.

On page 65 of E.Darbyshire’s “Ballads, Poems and Recitations” 1885, there is a poem entitled T’Owd Grindle Coke (not bad actually):

http://ia600308.us.a...sreci00darb.pdf

[ukelele lady]

Well done Edmund.

I used to visit these two pubs many years ago and I have references of my ancesters

lodging with the Loxleys at their pub.

Very interesting.

[RichardB]

Great stuff from Edmund, Thank you. Does this tally with your data fully UKL ? Are there any updates as a result of this ?

Well done Edmund.

I used to visit these two pubs many years ago and I have references of my ancesters

lodging with the Loxleys at their pub.

Very interesting.

[ukelele lady]

Great stuff from Edmund, Thank you. Does this tally with your data fully UKL ? Are there any updates as a result of this ?

I am updating as we go along but this one is a bit confusing, Old Grindstone and the Orignal Old Grindstone.

I can only go on what is printed in the directories, if a number of the road appears then that does help

to sort out which is which.

Also in the directories is John Machin not William. There is also James Martin , then Marston now becomes Morton.

[ukelele lady]

Going back through the , Whites, Pigot's & Co and the Kellys directories it seems

they both started off as just the Grindstone with Hallam Gate as the address , later

to become Crooks then Crookes.

1828 Grindstone , Crooks -- George Steade

1841 Grindstone, Crookes -- George Stead

1845 Grindstone , Hallam Gate -- George Stead

1849-52 Grindstone , Hallam Gate -- Sarah Stead.

1856 Grindstone, Crookes -- Sarah Stead

1856 Grindstone , Crookes -- John Machin

1859 Grindstone Tavern , Crookes -- Charles Lawton

1862 Grindstone , Crookes -- William Loxley

1862 Grindstone [ Old ], Crookes -- Charles Lawton

1863 Grindstone , Crookes -- William Loxley

1863 Grindstone, Crookes -- unoccupied

1864 Grindstone , Crookes -- James Martin

1864 Grindstone, Crookes -- William Loxley

1865 Old Grindstone, Crookes -- J Morton

1865 Grindstone, Crookes -- William Loxley

1868 Old Grindstone, Crookes -- S Warburton

1868 Grindstone, Crookes -- William Loxley

1871 Grindstone [ Original ] Crookes - - William Loxley

1871 Old Grindstone , Crookes -- Samual Warburton

1876 Old Original Grindstone , 22-24 Crookes -- Mrs Sarah Loxley

1876 Old Grindstone, Crookes -- Samual Warburton

1879 Old Grindstone , 1 Crookes -- Samual Warburton

1883 Old Original Grindstone, 22-24 Crookes - Henry Mercer

1883 Old Grindstone Inn, 1 Crookes -- Benjamin Gill

1887 Old Original Grindstone, Crookes -- John Fairgreave

1887 Old Grindstone, Crookes -- Joseph Eyre

1888 Old Original Grindstone, 24 Crookes -- George Stead

1888 Old Grindstone , 3 Crookes -- Joseph Eyre

1889 Old Original Grindstone , 24 Crookes -- George Stead

1889 Old Grindstone , 3 Crookes -- Charles Beevers

1890 Old Original Grindstone , 24 Crookes -- Joseph Bingham

1890 Old Grindstone, 3 Crookes -- Charles Thomas Pacey

And so on and so forth. It became much easier once there were a numbered road

instead of both the same named pub and road.

[southside]

 From the :1868 Illustrated Sporting and Theatrical News