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Union Jack, Right Way Up


ukelele lady

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A cricketer as head of state?

Not Boycott or Trueman then?

Not sure who I would pick.

Lovely Darren Gough :rolleyes:

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Has anyone stated the difference between a Union Jack and a Union Flag ? Not everyone may know; I think the difference is £2.50 plus VAT at 19%

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Has anyone stated the difference between a Union Jack and a Union Flag ? Not everyone may know; I think the difference is £2.50 plus VAT at 19%

The union flag dates back to the act of union between England and Scotland in the late 1600's - early 1700's

As such it combines the red cross on white of St. George (England) with the white diagonal cross on blue of St. Andrew (Scotland)

The union jack is the flag of the united kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales and parts of Ireland

Evident on it is the diagonal red cross of Ulster (Northern Ireland) but there is no evidence of the Welsh red dragon.

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The union flag dates back to the act of union between England and Scotland in the late 1600's - early 1700's

As such it combines the red cross on white of St. George (England) with the white diagonal cross on blue of St. Andrew (Scotland)

The union jack is the flag of the united kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales and parts of Ireland

Evident on it is the diagonal red cross of Ulster (Northern Ireland) but there is no evidence of the Welsh red dragon.

Then of course in America during the American Civil War 1861 - 1865 there was the union flag flown by the northern union of the (then) 34 states.

Compare this with the modern USA flag which has 50 stars

At the time the war was against 13 rebel states of the confederacy who had "ceded from the union" in order to uphold what they saw as their right to keep black slaves.

13 stars represent the 13 southern states of the Confederacy.

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Fine work !

Don't thank me yet Richard.

As you mentioned the union flag I still haven't mentioned the many different trade union flags in this country.

These are the ones used at protest parades and strike picket lines and the like.

I am no expert on these as i am not a big follower of trade unions, - although I am a member of one.

But, I strongly suspect that after todays emergency budget that we could be about to see a lot more of these flags.

You know, at protest rallies and on strike picket lines and the like. :o

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The union flag dates back to the act of union between England and Scotland in the late 1600's - early 1700's

As such it combines the red cross on white of St. George (England) with the white diagonal cross on blue of St. Andrew (Scotland)

The union jack is the flag of the united kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales and parts of Ireland

Evident on it is the diagonal red cross of Ulster (Northern Ireland) but there is no evidence of the Welsh red dragon.

At school in the infants and juniors it was always called the Union Jack and we had to draw it

over and over again. Woe betide anyone who got it wrong.

Today a lot of people call it the Union Flag but to me it's still the Union Jack.

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There is another possible definition of the difference between "Jack" and "Flag"; the Union Jack only applies to ships; what we fly on land is the Union Flag. Discuss.

15 Marks.

30 minutes.

Wilkins, get that chewing gum out yer gob-'ole ...

etc, etc.

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At school in the infants and juniors it was always called the Union Jack and we had to draw it

over and over again. Woe betide anyone who got it wrong.

Today a lot of people call it the Union Flag but to me it's still the Union Jack.

The modern one IS the Union Jack, - it's the older version which is the flag.

I remember having to draw it at school as well, and colour it in with crayons.

It is also extremely difficult to draw properly and accurately due to the resulting asymetry of the red and white diagonal crosses which somehow made it so that it never looked right, <_< - perhaps I had drawn it upside down lol

I also remember in the mid sixties our Junior School headmaster, Man Rackham, coming into one of our Geography lessons in the mid 1960's and saying to us something like, -

Right 4A, get out your atlases.

Turn to page 16, the map of the continent of Africa.

Just above South Africa find Bechuanaland,- it's pink like Britain, Canada and Australia.

Now with a pen and ruler cross out Bechuanaland

In it's place I want you to write this new name, I will write it on the board for you BOTSWANA

He then went through exactly the same process so that we renamed Basutoland LESOTHO.

Then, as he went to leave the room he turned to our Geography teacher and said.

They need coloured crayons now,

Those 2 renamed pink countries need recolouring either green or brown.

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There is another possible definition of the difference between "Jack" and "Flag"; the Union Jack only applies to ships; what we fly on land is the Union Flag. Discuss.

15 Marks.

30 minutes.

Wilkins, get that chewing gum out yer gob-'ole ...

etc, etc.

I think that is a bit naval and maritime, and for a lad from Sheffield, a City about as far from the sea as you can get in Britain, it really is outside my remit.

The Navy have probably made their own rules up on what constitutes a jack and what constitutes a flag (and even what constitutes an ensign.) so I won't even both to try and work that one out.

I used to think that Britannia ruled the waves

It turned out that Britannia waived the rules

{Another hidden reference to todays emergenct budget perhaps?}

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Jack or Flag? no one really knows but when all is said and done it's the same thing.

Here are three theories:-

'Union Jack' was officially acknowledged as an alternative name for the Union Flag by the Admiralty and Parliament in the early 20th century. The term 'jack' refers to the flag that is flown from the bowsprit of a ship, often denoting nationality."

"Union Flag," Microsoft® Encarta® Online Encyclopedia 2005

uk.encarta.msn.com © 1997-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

The Union Flag is commonly known as the Union Jack, although the exact origin of the name is unclear. One explanation is that it gets its name from the "jack staff" of naval vessels from which the original Union Flag was flown.

www.number-10.gov.uk

Historian David Starkey said in that Channel 4 tv programme that the Union Flag is called 'Jack' because it is named after James l of Great Britain (Jacobus , Latin for James), who introduced the flag following his accession to the throne.

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Jack or Flag? no one really knows but when all is said and done it's the same thing.

Here are three theories:-

'Union Jack' was officially acknowledged as an alternative name for the Union Flag by the Admiralty and Parliament in the early 20th century. The term 'jack' refers to the flag that is flown from the bowsprit of a ship, often denoting nationality."

"Union Flag," Microsoft® Encarta® Online Encyclopedia 2005

uk.encarta.msn.com © 1997-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

The Union Flag is commonly known as the Union Jack, although the exact origin of the name is unclear. One explanation is that it gets its name from the "jack staff" of naval vessels from which the original Union Flag was flown.

www.number-10.gov.uk

Historian David Starkey said in that Channel 4 tv programme that the Union Flag is called 'Jack' because it is named after James l of Great Britain (Jacobus , Latin for James), who introduced the flag following his accession to the throne.

I knew there would be a naval connection somewhere.

So what's an ensign then and how is that different from a flag or jack.

No one ever calls it a union ensign, but the union jack / flag frequently appears on naval ensigns.

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Both ways result in it being upside down.

I thought that your rotation of the flag would animate quite nicely.

If it is not rotating click on it to open.

Notice that every half rotation it looks the same, with the broad white line on the top in the top left quadrant.

So rotating the flag upside down does not turn it upside down.

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I knew there would be a naval connection somewhere.

So what's an ensign then and how is that different from a flag or jack.

No one ever calls it a union ensign, but the union jack / flag frequently appears on naval ensigns.

In 1627 the English Fleet (as it was then) was divided into three squadrons, the Red, Blue and White, in that order or seniority, and each had an English ensign in the appropriate colour with St George's Cross in the top corner. By 1653 the order of seniority had been changed to Red, White and Blue and in 1702 a large red cross was placed on the White Ensign to differentiate it from the French ensign, which at the time was plain white. In 1707, following the political union of England and Scotland, the three ensigns came to bear the Union Flag in the top corner as they do this day. In 1801 the additional red diagonal of St Patrick's Cross was added to the Union Flag and the three ensigns then took their modern form.

Nelson was the Vice Admiral of the White Squadron, so Trafalgar was fought under the White Ensign in 1805 rather than the Red or Blue one. In 1864 the squadron system was abandoned and the entire Royal Navy adopted the White Ensign, meanwhile the Merchant Navy was allocated the Red Ensign, and the Blue Ensign was reserved for non-military government ships. During the years since then a large number of special ensigns have been created for many organisations (including yacht clubs and government departments) whose badges have been placed onto a blue or red ensign to create a new and distinctive flag.

The White Ensign remains the premier British maritime flag and is worn by all Her Majesty's ships. Several other nations have developed their own versions of the White Ensign including Australia, India, Jamaica and Nigeria

In British maritime law and custom, the ensign proper to a British ship is one of several flags with a red, white or blue field, with the Union Flag in the canton (the upper corner next the staff), known as the red, blue and white ensigns respectively. Outside the nautical sphere, there are some flags which are modelled on the red, white and blue ensigns, but which use more unusual colours, e.g. the sky blue of the Royal Air Force ensign.

http://www.sea-dreamer.com/page.asp?pagename=ensign

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In 1627 the English Fleet (as it was then) was divided into three squadrons, the Red, Blue and White, in that order or seniority, and each had an English ensign in the appropriate colour with St George's Cross in the top corner. By 1653 the order of seniority had been changed to Red, White and Blue and in 1702 a large red cross was placed on the White Ensign to differentiate it from the French ensign, which at the time was plain white. In 1707, following the political union of England and Scotland, the three ensigns came to bear the Union Flag in the top corner as they do this day. In 1801 the additional red diagonal of St Patrick's Cross was added to the Union Flag and the three ensigns then took their modern form.

Nelson was the Vice Admiral of the White Squadron, so Trafalgar was fought under the White Ensign in 1805 rather than the Red or Blue one. In 1864 the squadron system was abandoned and the entire Royal Navy adopted the White Ensign, meanwhile the Merchant Navy was allocated the Red Ensign, and the Blue Ensign was reserved for non-military government ships. During the years since then a large number of special ensigns have been created for many organisations (including yacht clubs and government departments) whose badges have been placed onto a blue or red ensign to create a new and distinctive flag.

The White Ensign remains the premier British maritime flag and is worn by all Her Majesty's ships. Several other nations have developed their own versions of the White Ensign including Australia, India, Jamaica and Nigeria

In British maritime law and custom, the ensign proper to a British ship is one of several flags with a red, white or blue field, with the Union Flag in the canton (the upper corner next the staff), known as the red, blue and white ensigns respectively. Outside the nautical sphere, there are some flags which are modelled on the red, white and blue ensigns, but which use more unusual colours, e.g. the sky blue of the Royal Air Force ensign.

http://www.sea-dreamer.com/page.asp?pagename=ensign

Many thanks for the historical naval information on the use of ensigns there syrup.

I had wondered what they were, as I do sometimes wonder about naval and maritime things

But that's as far as it goes, I don't like the sea and unless they bring back press ganging men into the navy there is no way I would want to go to sea.

But the RAF, now that's a completely different proposition.

If they had still had National Service when I was 18 that would have been my first choice of force to go into.

I think in the days when National Service was in use, most men went into the army (like my dad did, - 2 years peacekeeping in Palestine and the Holy Land 1947 - 1949, - right in the middle of one of the regions violent outbursts), men with naval backgrounds or living in big ports like Liverpool tended to opt for navy but the RAF was more selective, - there was an aptitude test to get in and they liked you to have had a good education.

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I think in the days when National Service was in use, most men went into the army (like my dad did, - 2 years peacekeeping in Palestine and the Holy Land 1947 - 1949, - right in the middle of one of the regions violent outbursts), men with naval backgrounds or living in big ports like Liverpool tended to opt for navy but the RAF was more selective, - there was an aptitude test to get in and they liked you to have had a good education.

I missed national Service by a couple of years, but if I remember right, didn't you do 2 years in the army or navy, but 3 years if you opted for and were accepted by the RAF?

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I missed national Service by a couple of years, but if I remember right, didn't you do 2 years in the army or navy, but 3 years if you opted for and were accepted by the RAF?

No I think it was still the same , two years. My husband was in the RAF [ Riff Raff]

but he only did two years. I'll ask him when he wakes up. :rolleyes:

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Germany 4 England 1

Although that should be

Germany 4 England 2

(Note it's upside down) :(

Sign of distress. :(

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I missed national Service by a couple of years, but if I remember right, didn't you do 2 years in the army or navy, but 3 years if you opted for and were accepted by the RAF?

I have a friend who did his National service in the second half of the 1950's.

Spent 2 years as an armourment fitter on Vampires and Venoms based on the German / Danish island of Sylt

Enjoyed it so much that he signed up for another 3 years straight after.

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These are handmade rugs seen at the Sheffield Steam Rally yesterday.

I didn't buy one, wouldn't have matched the decor but they are the

right way round, right side up, inside out, whatever. lol

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I have a friend who did his National service in the second half of the 1950's.

Spent 2 years as an armourment fitter on Vampires and Venoms based on the German / Danish island of Sylt

Enjoyed it so much that he signed up for another 3 years straight after.

I've a cousin who did the same. He was a trainee draughtsman and got his service deferred until he finished then joined the RAF. He enjoyed it so much he signed on and finished up making a career of it, partly persuaded by an early spell in Cyprus when he seemed to spend most of his time skin diving!

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I've a cousin who did the same. He was a trainee draughtsman and got his service deferred until he finished then joined the RAF. He enjoyed it so much he signed on and finished up making a career of it, partly persuaded by an early spell in Cyprus when he seemed to spend most of his time skin diving!

My husband was a trainee draughtsman too and he got deferred but he just

did his two years.

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