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alexander

C.h. Preston

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Anyone got any photos or information about this road haulier who was my grandad and was based in Owlerton , family sold out in the early 50s but the new owners retained the name .

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Anyone got any photos or imformation abot this road haulier who was my grandad and was based in Owlerton , family sold out in the early 50s but the new owners retained the name .

The PictureSheffield photo that was in this thread up to last night seems to have disappeared since the update work, but I think it showed the traction engines against the south side of St. Johns Church, Owlerton. The space now comprises part of the large car-park in front of the dog-track. When I was a kid this space was just a cinder covered area where the fun-fairs and circuses used to pitch.

My wife's grandfather used to be in the haulage business in Eyam then Calver using traction engines then small lorries. We have a number of photos of him driving them and even one of him driving a small steam locomotive at one of the quarries. As a sideline he ran hire cars for weddings and such. His business cards show a Willys Overlander made by the firm that later made the WW2 Jeep. If the family still had it now it would be worth a fortune.

Hilldweller.

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The photo link was added by forum member syrup,

here it is again .. picturesheffield

Edited by madannie77
Picture Sheffield link repaired.

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Charles Harold Preston, Steam Haulage contractor, 892 Penistone Road, Owlerton (Kelly's Directory 1925)

Previous resident at that address John Moulder, Pensioner (Police) (1905 & 1911)

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The photo link was added by forum member syrup,

here it is again .. picturesheffield

My previous response to this picturesheffield image has also disappeared.

The picture shows 2 Foden steam wagons, made at the Foden works in Sandbach, Cheshire.

The wagons are fitted with the 3 way tip and tilt rear bodywork and like all Foden wagons have the "overtype" steam engine design of the classic British steam traction engine (hence perhaps the reason hilldweller refered to these wagons as traction engines)

Up until the late 1920's these were ideal vehicles for road haulage, until the superior Sentinel undertpe and gear driven Waggons came along which were capable of much higher road speeeds.

In their turn even the Sentinel Waggons were replaced with the more convenient and cleaner Diesel engined lorry we know today.

Edited by madannie77
broken link repaired

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The PictureSheffield photo that was in this thread up to last night seems to have disappeared since the update work, but I think it showed the traction engines against the south side of St. Johns Church, Owlerton. The space now comprises part of the large car-park in front of the dog-track. When I was a kid this space was just a cinder covered area where the fun-fairs and circuses used to pitch.

My wife's grandfather used to be in the haulage business in Eyam then Calver using traction engines then small lorries. We have a number of photos of him driving them and even one of him driving a small steam locomotive at one of the quarries. As a sideline he ran hire cars for weddings and such. His business cards show a Willys Overlander made by the firm that later made the WW2 Jeep. If the family still had it now it would be worth a fortune.

Hilldweller.

Sorry to go slightly of at a tangent or words to that effect but here is a 1932 Willys-Overland Playboy Roadster for sale and they only want $47,520.00 for it sadly its dated Dec 2006 so it might have gone now looks nice though.

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The PictureSheffield photo that was in this thread up to last night seems to have disappeared since the update work, but I think it showed the traction engines against the south side of St. Johns Church, Owlerton. The space now comprises part of the large car-park in front of the dog-track. When I was a kid this space was just a cinder covered area where the fun-fairs and circuses used to pitch.

My wife's grandfather used to be in the haulage business in Eyam then Calver using traction engines then small lorries. We have a number of photos of him driving them and even one of him driving a small steam locomotive at one of the quarries. As a sideline he ran hire cars for weddings and such. His business cards show a Willys Overlander made by the firm that later made the WW2 Jeep. If the family still had it now it would be worth a fortune.Hilldweller.

Well hilldweller,

Take it from me having worked with steam and vintage club for around 16 years,

If you still had the traction engines they too would be worth a fortune.

A branch of my family were travelling showmen and the value of the steam engines they owned in the 1920's would be astronomical now.

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Well hilldweller,

Take it from me having worked with steam and vintage club for around 16 years,

If you still had the traction engines they too would be worth a fortune.

A branch of my family were travelling showmen and the value of the steam engines they owned in the 1920's would be astronomical now.

That is certainly true: I saw this beauty at the Bowes Railway in 2007, just after it had been sold for "considerably more than £250,000", according to the seller. No doubt traction engines in similar condition command similar prices.

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That is certainly true: I saw this beauty at the Bowes Railway in 2007, just after it had been sold for "considerably more than £250,000", according to the seller. No doubt traction engines in similar condition command similar prices.

This is Foden steam wagon NO. 13156, road registered as UR 1328 as new in September 1928. My notes indicate that in the 1990's it was based in the Dumfries area of Scotland.

Traction engines these days command "silly money" and they are a real investment as they are appreciating in value way beyond inflation.

Although, if you wanted to use one rather than just keep it as an investment, they are very expensive to run.

The one in your picture looks well restored and preserved, clearly in good condition.

It doesn't suprise me that it cost over a quarter of a million quid at all.

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The photo link was added by forum member syrup,

here it is again .. picturesheffield

The wagons in the photo which my grandad owned were built by Mann not Foden

Edited by madannie77
broken link repaired

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The wagons in the photo which my grandad owned were built by Mann not Foden

Yes, they are Mann wagons, built by the "Mann Patent Steam Cart & Wagon Co. Ltd".

I was thrown by the tip and tilt bodywork which Foden used quite a lot on a similar looking engine. I should have known better, the width of the bodywork and the small amount of enginework visible on the right hand engine indicate it is not a Foden, however Mann made wagons with both traditional inline boilers, - like this one and like all Fodens, but also with some transverse boilers like the "Yorkshire Steam Wagon Co." design to utilise that extra body width.

Now Mann was a much smaller wagon manufacturer than Foden. Foden manufactured just over 14000 steam road engines of which about 100 survive into preservation today. Mann manufactured around 1750 engines ( based on their engine numbers) of which only 12 are known to have survived to this day.

Of the ones in the picturesheffield image the left hand one has a clearly readable registration plate begining with WF (a Sheffield district registration) so I assume it was new to your grandfather, a Sheffield based haulier. No Mann engines with WF registrations seem to have survived to this day, - in fact of the 12 surviving engines, 8 of them carry a U district marker (Registration is letter + 4 digits, ie "U 1234" the other 4 being TF, KM, FU and one which is not road registered. I am not well up on registration districts to identify where they were registered. At least 3 of the surviving engines are in museums (Beamish, Ironbridge and Hollycombe House) and all were registered between 19124 and 1928.

So, if a Foden is over £250,000, a surviving Mann wagon would be worth considerably more just because of its rarity.

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Yes, they are Mann wagons, built by the "Mann Patent Steam Cart & Wagon Co. Ltd".

I was thrown by the tip and tilt bodywork which Foden used quite a lot on a similar looking engine. I should have known better, the width of the bodywork and the small amount of enginework visible on the right hand engine indicate it is not a Foden, however Mann made wagons with both traditional inline boilers, - like this one and like all Fodens, but also with some transverse boilers like the "Yorkshire Steam Wagon Co." design to utilise that extra body width.

Now Mann was a much smaller wagon manufacturer than Foden. Foden manufactured just over 14000 steam road engines of which about 100 survive into preservation today. Mann manufactured around 1750 engines ( based on their engine numbers) of which only 12 are known to have survived to this day.

Of the ones in the picturesheffield image the left hand one has a clearly readable registration plate begining with WF (a Sheffield district registration) so I assume it was new to your grandfather, a Sheffield based haulier. No Mann engines with WF registrations seem to have survived to this day, - in fact of the 12 surviving engines, 8 of them carry a U district marker (Registration is letter + 4 digits, ie "U 1234" the other 4 being TF, KM, FU and one which is not road registered. I am not well up on registration districts to identify where they were registered. At least 3 of the surviving engines are in museums (Beamish, Ironbridge and Hollycombe House) and all were registered between 19124 and 1928.

So, if a Foden is over £250,000, a surviving Mann wagon would be worth considerably more just because of its rarity.

WF is not a Sheffield reg , I have the original photo and I think it"s WE which is a Sheffield reg

Edited by madannie77
merged quote and reply

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WF is not a Sheffield reg , I have the original photo and I think it"s WE which is a Sheffield reg

OK, I had to look this one up.

Most people are well aware of year codes indicated by a number (currently 10, previously 59) and even the older system still seen on old cars like mine (leading W = 2000), or older still with a trailing letter instead of a leading letter (trailing K = 1972) BUT fewer people will be familiar with the registration district codes that locate a vehicles place of first registration. I know of them, but cannot recall them without looking them up as they seem to defy having a logical system to them.

According to the data I have WA, WB, WE, WF, WG and WJ are all Sheffield registrations. As also are KU, KW, KY and AK !!! (See what i mean, - no logic at all)

However, the letter after the W indicates a regional licensing office and they should more correctly be called Sheffield DISTRICT codes, where the district probably extends beyond the City limits.

For completeness the U District, either with or without a following letter is the code for Leeds. This doesn't suprise me that much as I seem to remember Mann Patent Steam Cart & wagon Co. Ltd was based in Leeds, - although the name does also conjure up a connection with the Isle of Man!! (Probably just my brain playing up)

TF is Reading

KM is Maidstone

FU is Grimsby

You can look up all the codes and other information about historic registrations here

Car Registrations

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The PictureSheffield photo that was in this thread up to last night seems to have disappeared since the update work, but I think it showed the traction engines against the south side of St. Johns Church, Owlerton. The space now comprises part of the large car-park in front of the dog-track. When I was a kid this space was just a cinder covered area where the fun-fairs and circuses used to pitch.

My wife's grandfather used to be in the haulage business in Eyam then Calver using traction engines then small lorries. We have a number of photos of him driving them and even one of him driving a small steam locomotive at one of the quarries. As a sideline he ran hire cars for weddings and such. His business cards show a Willys Overlander made by the firm that later made the WW2 Jeep. If the family still had it now it would be worth a fortune.

Hilldweller.

Unfortunately, I am unable to post the pictures of my wife's grandfathers steam engines as I think that they may be subject to copyright. I believe one of his sons may have entered into a business arrangement with a photographer based in Eyam and the pictures were sold in Eyam as momentos of days gone by. They have since been published in at least one book called The Peak District, Pictures From The Past by Lindsey Porter. One picture numbered 133 shows Grandad and one of his sons stood between a lorry and a steam wagon with solid rubber tyres whose reg plate number is U-7746. There is only a partial registration visable on the lorry but you can see his name on the lorry chassis. The same book shows in picture 144 an old Eyam sheep roast (1920's ?) which Grandad rigged up. Visable in the picture is a bevel gear for the vertical spit, presumably from an old car. When we were clearing out the family garage about 7 years ago we found the same bevel gear arrangement and scrapped it.

HD

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OK, I had to look this one up.

Most people are well aware of year codes indicated by a number (currently 10, previously 59) and even the older system still seen on old cars like mine (leading W = 2000), or older still with a trailing letter instead of a leading letter (trailing K = 1972) BUT fewer people will be familiar with the registration district codes that locate a vehicles place of first registration. I know of them, but cannot recall them without looking them up as they seem to defy having a logical system to them.

According to the data I have WA, WB, WE, WF, WG and WJ are all Sheffield registrations. As also are KU, KW, KY and AK !!! (See what i mean, - no logic at all)

However, the letter after the W indicates a regional licensing office and they should more correctly be called Sheffield DISTRICT codes, where the district probably extends beyond the City limits.

For completeness the U District, either with or without a following letter is the code for Leeds. This doesn't suprise me that much as I seem to remember Mann Patent Steam Cart & wagon Co. Ltd was based in Leeds, - although the name does also conjure up a connection with the Isle of Man!! (Probably just my brain playing up)

TF is Reading

KM is Maidstone

FU is Grimsby

You can look up all the codes and other information about historic registrations here

Car Registrations

Up to 1974 Sheffield only had W WA WB WE & WJ , all the others were added after this date . See CAR REGISTRATION GUIDE Newby Books

Edited by madannie77
quote box and reply merged into one post

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Unfortunately, I am unable to post the pictures of my wife's grandfathers steam engines as I think that they may be subject to copyright. I believe one of his sons may have entered into a business arrangement with a photographer based in Eyam and the pictures were sold in Eyam as momentos of days gone by. They have since been published in at least one book called The Peak District, Pictures From The Past by Lindsey Porter. One picture numbered 133 shows Grandad and one of his sons stood between a lorry and a steam wagon with solid rubber tyres whose reg plate number is U-7746. There is only a partial registration visable on the lorry but you can see his name on the lorry chassis. The same book shows in picture 144 an old Eyam sheep roast (1920's ?) which Grandad rigged up. Visable in the picture is a bevel gear for the vertical spit, presumably from an old car. When we were clearing out the family garage about 7 years ago we found the same bevel gear arrangement and scrapped it.

HD

All I can tell you from the registration number hilldweller is that it is not listed in the traction engine register.

This usually means that the engine has been scrapped and has not made it into present day preservation.

However, it can sometimes mean that the engine has been sold for permenant export and is no longer in the country. There is a seperate register of these engines but I currently don't have a copy.

The U registration probably indicates Leeds, but Alexander will correct me on that if it isn't.

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Up to 1974 Sheffield only had W WA WB WE & WJ , all the others were added after this date . See CAR REGISTRATION GUIDE Newby Books

So where was WF before 1974 then?

It sounds local but probably isn't.

Once again there seems to be little logic or thought put into the allocation of these identifying letters.

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So where was WF before 1974 then?

It sounds local but probably isn't.

Once again there seems to be little logic or thought put into the allocation of these identifying letters.

WF was an East Riding issue until 1974.

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WF was an East Riding issue until 1974.

Thanks madannie, that makes perfect sense now.

I was at Hull University from 1974 to 1977 and many vehicles in that area (East Riding until 1974, North Humberside after) carried those registration letters so I was used to seeing them.

I also remember that the letters for Hull itself were AT (again, I don't know why AT for Hull, - no logical system) and with the 3 letters - numbers - trailing year letter system then in use this made for some amusing words. Many registrations started off with words like BAT, CAT, RAT, FAT, PAT, HAT, SAT etc.

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Thanks madannie, that makes perfect sense now.

I was at Hull University from 1974 to 1977 and many vehicles in that area (East Riding until 1974, North Humberside after) carried those registration letters so I was used to seeing them.

I also remember that the letters for Hull itself were AT (again, I don't know why AT for Hull, - no logical system) and with the 3 letters - numbers - trailing year letter system then in use this made for some amusing words. Many registrations started off with words like BAT, CAT, RAT, FAT, PAT, HAT, SAT etc.

East Riding also had BT, and Hull had KH and RH as well as AT: look pretty random to me (apart from KH which could be taken to represent Kingston upon Hull.

Wandering a bit off topic again, but registrations are something which I used to find fascinating.

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East Riding also had BT, and Hull had KH and RH as well as AT: look pretty random to me (apart from KH which could be taken to represent Kingston upon Hull.

Wandering a bit off topic again, but registrations are something which I used to find fascinating.

Fascinating but not really me.

If its logical, systematic and organised then it science.

If its illogical, badly organised and makes no sense then its modern art. lol

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Fascinating but not really me.

If its logical, systematic and organised then it science.

If its illogical, badly organised and makes no sense then its modern art. lol

Looking at the list in front of me, it is modern art, but then by your definition so am I most of the time :wacko:

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For completeness the U District, either with or without a following letter is the code for Leeds. This doesn't suprise me that much as I seem to remember Mann Patent Steam Cart & wagon Co. Ltd was based in Leeds, - although the name does also conjure up a connection with the Isle of Man!! (Probably just my brain playing up)

TF is Reading

KM is Maidstone

FU is Grimsby

OK back to topic.

The oldest of the 12 surviving Mann engines is this one

This Mann engine number 881, made at the "Mann Patent Steam Cart & Wagon Co. Ltd" works at Pepper Street, Hunslet in 1914. It carries the road registration number TF 2598 and is classed as a 4 nhp (nominal horse power) compound engined tractor. It was built for the War Department for gun haulage in France during the First World War. After being returned to Britain after the war it went into the ownership of Fylde Council and then to Isaac Balls Ltd. Road Makers in Stockport, Lancashire who had it converted into a road roller. At the end of its useful life and at the end of the steam era it was fortunate enough to go into preservation and was fully restored, both to working condition and to its original gun tractor design.

One of its most recent owners the late Walter Fearnley of Leeds who named the engine "uncle Walt" and rallied it extensively at local rallies. Although he never came to a Sheffield rally with it in my time as he would have been a very old man at the time the engine was well known around other big rallies like Lincoln and Pickering. My picture seems to have been taken in the 1990's at the Masham steam rally.

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OK back to topic.

The oldest of the 12 surviving Mann engines is this one

This Mann engine number 881, made at the "Mann Patent Steam Cart & Wagon Co. Ltd" works at Pepper Street, Hunslet in 1914. It carries the road registration number TF 2598 and is classed as a 4 nhp (nominal horse power) compound engined tractor. It was built for the War Department for gun haulage in France during the First World War. After being returned to Britain after the war it went into the ownership of Fylde Council and then to Isaac Balls Ltd. Road Makers in Stockport, Lancashire who had it converted into a road roller. At the end of its useful life and at the end of the steam era it was fortunate enough to go into preservation and was fully restored, both to working condition and to its original gun tractor design.

One of its most recent owners the late Walter Fearnley of Leeds who named the engine "uncle Walt" and rallied it extensively at local rallies. Although he never came to a Sheffield rally with it in my time as he would have been a very old man at the time the engine was well known around other big rallies like Lincoln and Pickering. My picture seems to have been taken in the 1990's at the Masham steam rally.

Interesting topic as I used to drive for C H Preston 1968-69 when they were on Woodburn Road.This photo was sent to me by a so-called friend who asked which one I drove lol

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Interesting topic as I used to drive for C H Preston 1968-69 when they were on Woodburn Road.This photo was sent to me by a so-called friend who asked which one I drove lol

Same engine as in the picture sheffield post shown previously but much better quality and much clearer.

This time it is clearly a Mann engine and the registration is WB 4166

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