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miked

Luftwaffe planes in Sheffield?

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Wings For Victory, and raising money for the war effort.

Dave,

According to my Dad, you could by a "National Savings" *stamp*, and stick it on the aircraft. When I said *sticker* previously, I used the wrong word (and got told off for it!). He said there were hundreds of *stamps* covering the fuselage.

It was definitely there for the Sheffield Newspapers War Fund ("Salute the Airmen")? Which was some kind of fundraising effort. Apparently there was a large thermometer sytle thing on the front of the Star Newspaper Building in Sheffield, which showed the progress of the fund. No idea where the funds went, mabee as you say towards a Spitfire?

Any idea of the date it was there? I assumed it was 1940, but apparently that's wrong too!

Cheers,

Dr_GN.

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Dave,

According to my Dad, you could by a "National Savings" *stamp*, and stick it on the aircraft. When I said *sticker* previously, I used the wrong word (and got told off for it!). He said there were hundreds of *stamps* covering the fuselage.

It was definitely there for the Sheffield Newspapers War Fund ("Salute the Airmen")? Which was some kind of fundraising effort. Apparently there was a large thermometer sytle thing on the front of the Star Newspaper Building in Sheffield, which showed the progress of the fund. No idea where the funds went, mabee as you say towards a Spitfire?

Any idea of the date it was there? I assumed it was 1940, but apparently that's wrong too!

Cheers,

Dr_GN.

Don't know exactly when it was there as it could have been brought to Sheffield at any time after it had been shot down, and that Sepember 1940 date puts this very early in the war, - just as the "Battle of Britain" was taking place in fact.

I am sure my dad said the money was "to build a Spitfire" but they would tell you that as even at this stage of the war the Spitfire had quite a reputation as being our finest fighter. There were campaigns to do just this, - to pay for the production of a new Spitfire. But ounder the general heading of "to help the war effort" the money could have been used for any military purpose, - it could have been used for example on much needed medical supplies.

However, as you mention a thermometer indicating the amount collected this implies some sort of target figure to aim at and that figure could well have been the cost of making a Spitfire.

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Don't know exactly when it was there as it could have been brought to Sheffield at any time after it had been shot down, and that Sepember 1940 date puts this very early in the war, - just as the "Battle of Britain" was taking place in fact.

I am sure my dad said the money was "to build a Spitfire" but they would tell you that as even at this stage of the war the Spitfire had quite a reputation as being our finest fighter. There were campaigns to do just this, - to pay for the production of a new Spitfire. But ounder the general heading of "to help the war effort" the money could have been used for any military purpose, - it could have been used for example on much needed medical supplies.

However, as you mention a thermometer indicating the amount collected this implies some sort of target figure to aim at and that figure could well have been the cost of making a Spitfire.

I wonder if there would be anything about it in the Star archives?

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I wonder if there would be anything about it in the Star archives?

More than likely yes.

As "Careless Talk Costs Lives" I suspect that war reporting would be strictly controlled and censored so as not to give anything away.

But a shot down German plane in a Blitzed City centre with people around who had been bombed out of their homes but still determined to fight on would be a great moral booster and exactly the sort of thing that would get published.

It would certainly be worth taking a look.

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Hi Mike

I don't know about the Heinkel, but the 109 was shipped in for a fund and morale raising drive.

Was the Heinkel shot down over sheffield? i can remember my nan telling me, my great grandad was an undertaker during the war, and that a german bomber was brought down over sheffield. he went to pull out the body of one of the german airmen grabbing hold of his feet and his foot came off, he'd been burnt.

mick

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Was the Heinkel shot down over sheffield? i can remember my nan telling me, my great grandad was an undertaker during the war, and that a german bomber was brought down over sheffield. he went to pull out the body of one of the german airmen grabbing hold of his feet and his foot came off, he'd been burnt.

mick

Either on here or the other Forum this came up, and apparently no German aircraft came down anywhere near Sheffield. I think the nearest was Gringley on the Hill? Anyone find the post?

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Not what I was looking for but I just tried a trawl through t'other forum and came across This.

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Not what I was looking for but I just tried a trawl through t'other forum and came across This.

A crashed German plane and an American camp on Manor Lane :blink:

Not heard that one before.

However, there was an anti aircraft gun post on Manor Lane

Manor Lane gun emplacement

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When it comes to German aircraft crashes in the Sheffield area, it seems many reports were spurious, and now lost in local folkelore. According to the Pat Cunningham Books I mentioned previously ("Peakland Air Crashes"), there are many reports of German aircraft crash sites, most of which remain unconfirmed. The nearest likely Heinkel 111 crash site was on Langsett Moor, but no trace of wreckage could be found in recent years. Also, a '111 was said to have crashed on Stokes' paint factory on Little London Road. This has definitely been confirmed as a myth. It's interesting that most allied crash sites are very well documented, but most German crash sites have an air of mystery about them.

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A crashed German plane and an American camp on Manor Lane :blink:

Not heard that one before.

However, there was an anti aircraft gun post on Manor Lane

Manor Lane gun emplacement

I assumed the 'crashed german bomber' was on display there rather than actually crashed there, so a possible link to the He111 photo that started this thread?

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A crashed German plane and an American camp on Manor Lane :blink:

Not heard that one before.

However, there was an anti aircraft gun post on Manor Lane

Manor Lane gun emplacement

DAVEH,

the AA gun emplacment i know on manor lane is the one on the farm i used to live on, manor cottage farm, but it was out of use by 1917 and never used again, was there another one near there in WW2?

mick

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DAVEH,

the AA gun emplacment i know on manor lane is the one on the farm i used to live on, manor cottage farm, but it was out of use by 1917 and never used again, was there another one near there in WW2?

mick

Don't think so mick851,

I got the info (and put the link) to your previous posts in another thread.

Its just that its the only thing I could think of involving aircraft and Manor Lane.

No shot down German WW2 planes to my knowledge, nor any American bases.

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Don't think so mick851,

I got the info (and put the link) to your previous posts in another thread.

Its just that its the only thing I could think of involving aircraft and Manor Lane.

No shot down German WW2 planes to my knowledge, nor any American bases.

DAVEH,

just thinking :blink: , i heard ages ago that there was something where seaton crescent now is, just off manor lane, that after ww2 there was some huts still there, left by the army/R.A.F????, wonder if another AA gun emplacement was there or a ZZ battery????

anybody else have anymore info on this?

mick

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DAVEH,

just thinking :blink: , i heard ages ago that there was something where seaton crescent now is, just off manor lane, that after ww2 there was some huts still there, left by the army/R.A.F????, wonder if another AA gun emplacement was there or a ZZ battery????

anybody else have anymore info on this?

mick

Not sure about that mick851

I don't suppose it could be this mysterious "American base" which has previously been mentioned along with a shot down German plane <_<

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Not sure about that mick851

I don't suppose it could be this mysterious "American base" which has previously been mentioned along with a shot down German plane <_<

DAVEH,

just found a bit about it in a book, called Sheffields time trail. it says the AA battery was down at the bottom of manor lane, they've built houses on it now ( which might be seaton crescent, as the houses further down on the left, just past farm were built before ww2 ) . and in another book, it mentions 106 battery at manor, the 106 battery was a ZZ battery. think ive another book which has a bit in about it, which im trying to find at moment :mellow:

just found a snippet of info on a web site, mentioning the AA battery near the farm, cant find anything to do with a american base

mick

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Thanks for all the efforts, I reckon in the 109 , in situ, shot, it shows the side door to the Guamont, I remember using it.

Some years ago there was a cockpit section on display at Kelham Island Museum. It was for training in Spain where they used these bombers up to the 1960,s. (some with spitfire engines!)I have tried to find out about this cockpit specimen but no luck as yet.

I remember thinking how small it was and not like my Airfix notion.

All we need to do now is find out which bomber it was, who flew it, where it crashed, and the life stories of the crew.

OVER TO YOU DOCTOR

Re. THe Heinkel: got this message from the Luftwaffe expert on Britmodeller:

"Nice 'other' shot of White 5.

As far as the Heinkel photo goes, at this point and IMHO it’s anybody’s guess as to which aircraft it is. I believe that what you think is the top half of a ‘7’ aft of the fuselage cross is actually a ‘J’ which, as frequently applied to Lw aircraft, has a long horizontal stroke at the top of the vertical arm.

The spinners are (apparently) white which indicate a 1.Staffel aircraft yet the ‘J’ (which is the individual aircraft letter) appears to be yellow suggesting a 3. or 6. Staffel aircraft. If this is the case then the last letter of the code would be ‘L’ or ‘P’, yet if it is from the 1.Staffel the individual letter would be white or outlined in white and the last letter of the code would be ‘H’. After a very quick look through my loss records for the period July – October 1940 I have come up with the following He 111 that came down on British soil relatively intact which had J as the third figure in the code and may be the aircraft in question: A1+JP of the 6./KG53 which came down at Manston on 30 Aug with the crew captured.

HTH

Cheers

Dave"

Interesting the Heinkel Dave mentions crashed at Manston - exactly the same place as the Messerschmitt, and only a few days earlier. Crew captured? Looks like it's possible they all survived the crash judging from the lack of significant damage in the photo, plus it might be unlikely that a fatal crash airframe would be paraded around for public viewing.

Cheers,

Dr_GN.

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Guys,

I finally finished my model of "White 5":

More pics here:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=59365

Many thanks for all your help with my research.

Cheers

Dr_GN.

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There was for certain AA guns just below the Manor Lodge site near the farm. My Dad, who lived on Wulfric Road remembers them well. He were playing with fragments of shell cases afterwards. He also says later on nearby they installed "Rocket Guns".

The Lodge site also had a Home Guard post and Pauline Beswick who was in charge of the excavations in the 70's & 80's says they dug up live amunition connected with the Home Guard. :o

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[Regarding the earlier post about the bomber cockpit that was on display at Kelham Island.

There used to be such an item at the South Yorkshire Aircraft Museum when it was based at Firbeck. When that museum moved to become Arooventure at Doncaster the exhibit had gone.

I know that South Yorks Air Museum periodically loaned items to Kelham Island (and others) when special exhibits were being made up so this might have been one of them.

From what I remember about that bomber nose was that it wasn't entirely genuine but played some part as a film prop for the film Battle of Britain. The "through the nose" air shots of the german bombers were filmed using that nose. Whether or not there were any genuine parts on it I have no idea. I also seem to remember that the nose was privately owned and was at South Yorks Air Museum for display and "storage". Perhaps the owner eventually took it elsewhere?

If you want to follow this up I'm sure that the Curator, Naylan Moore, at Aeroventure Doncaster will know more. He was definitely at the museum when the bomber nose was on display.

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I have a picture of the much talked about me 109. I have a picture of my dad about to sit in it aged 5. They paid 6d for the privilege and extra for a picture which my Nan apparently thought was the one of him getting in it. It was probably a coincidence or something that the star photographer was taking one at the time. It was actually the picture of it arriving in Sheffield on the crane. On the reverse is my Grandmothers writing at the time about it. I will post the picture which is in a book called Sheffield since 1900. I am amazed at all the information available. I have been looking on a well-known video archiving site (YT) and have found many films of me109s and am trying to see if white 5 from that squadron is there. I have seen one with similar markings but with over 30000 produced there must have been many number 5s I will; ask my dad to post more info if anyone is interested including the reverse of the postcard.

Will do this just as soon I find out how to upload! Having problems locating a parent album

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Looks like you are having a few problems, have another go please.

SH link ..

Do not worry about unsuccessful attempts, they can always be deleted.

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Yes this is a direct link to where the picture is on your own computer, - in the C drive (the main hard drive) and on your desktop.

Clearly we cannot connect to your computer and access this information so it is not a workable link.

To make it work you need to upload a copy of your image onto the Sheffield History site first and then attach the uploaded picture to your post.

Steve's link to the instructions he has provided for new members in the 2how to" guide should make this clear and explain how to do it.

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Apologies for the thread bump, but I recently received some excellent information (via a Britmodeller PM) about "White 5" from a relation of the pilot. Just for completeness, here it is:

"During the last week we did some research in the net and stumbled upon the “britmodeller” page. There you posted about your project: Matchbox Bf109E-4 1:32 "White 5". In some posts you were asking about the pilot of the “Sheffield” Bf109E-4 "White 5".

Pilot Uffz. Hans Georg Schulte was my grandfather. He rarely talked about his time in World War II with me. As far as I know, he was shot down two times. The first time he crashed in the British channel and was picked up by the German Marine. Shortly after that crash he went back to flying his “White 5”. He counted for himself 8 victories, from which 7 were verified.

On 6th September his plane was hit while fighting again in the Battle over Britain by a Spitfire. He managed to do an emergency landing in the south of Britain. As far as I know, he was injured by a splinter on the left side of his neck, when his plane was hit. After landing in Britain he must have spent some time in a British military hospital. Later he was transported to Canada as a prisoner of war. There he spent the rest of the war and survived.

After the war he returned to Germany, though I do not know the exact year. When the German Army was reinstalled in the Fifties, he became a pilot again, though he changed to flying helicopters then. He spent some time in the US (e.g. Texas) for some flight instruction courses. Back in Germany he was a helicopter pilot for the new German Army for a couple of years. Later he gave up flying.

Unfortunately he never mentioned anything about technical details of his time flying or details according to the special painting of his “White 5”, the only detail I can remember is, that he was flying with the famous pilot Ernst Udet.

My granddad returned to the UK later in his life to go deer hunting in the north of England and Scotland – and to taste the whiskey ;-). For hunting he returned to Canada as well in the 80ies. In December 2003 he died in the age of 85.

One of the linked pictures in yourpost shows my granddad as a young man:

http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109E/Bf-109E...ce-19... (Broken Link ? - Vox)

He is the second man counting from the left side (white shirt, hands in pockets)

Unfortunately we have not found these old pictures or the Matchbox model of “his white 5” earlier. I think my granddad would have been very surprised what happend to his plane after the crash.

Do you know, if there are more pictures or if the real plane exists still anywhere in Britain?

Hope, that you can deal with my information given, though I can not give you more special or technical details.

It is amazing, what one can find in the www though...

Greets from Germany"

I also found this rather bizarre story, possibly about the pilot while in Canada:

http://news.google.c...pg=5748,4666015

Cheers,

Dr_GN.

Edit:

The link to the photo didn't seem to work

I think this is the one you referred to

http://thumbsnap.com/i/umbAWRIl.jpg

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Great story Dr GN

(I re-linked, above, to the photo, which wasn't working for me.)

As you say, completely baffling as to what was going on in the newspaper story.

I would add, for anybody who hasn't noticed, that the story continues on page 14

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