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Worst ever bus fire ?


Guest transit

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This is serious : during PTE days there was a serious problem with buses been stolen usualy from the bus park(s) in town or from leadmill, usualy it was a case of someone wanting a lift home so they borrowed a bus. This is why the "secret" starting switches were fitted so they couldnt be started .

I didn't realise that people stole buses just for a ride home, as I said it seems a really pointless thing to want to do.

What did they do with the bus when they got home?

Presumably burning it out as shown in your earlier picture was a better option than leaving it parked outside your front door as a dead giveaway to the Police.

I do remember a time when thugs would try to rob buses of their fares or demand free lifts home late at night while they were drunk and aggressive, resulting in a number of assalts on bus staff.

This lead to certain services being withdrawn after about 7 or 8 o'clock at night to prevent this happening.

Of course this action cured the immediate problem but had several undesirable effects, it reduced the bus company fare taking capacity at night, it would leave bus staff short of night hours work, it inconvenienced other passengers making a majority of good customers suffer for the actions of a few idiots and of course it allienated these passengers making public transport less desirable.

Like you said busman, a serious problem.

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Guest bus man

Having now thought about this , the theft of buses/coaches is a long standing problem there were several reports in the press around 5 years ago of coaches/ buses been nicked in the bristol area and been found in the glossop area.

Always found with no damage it was assumed they had been nicked by someone to get home. The fact that there was no no damage indicates that theve were driven by someone with a PCV or PSV as it was then.

There is a documented case in the 1950s of a aldershot and Dist coach been found in the coach park in sheffield after it didnt move for a bit SUT rang A&D and asked what it was doing there . O youve got it, have you, its been nicked theve left it at sheffield this time, right can you arrange for it to be checked over , well tell the police and send a driver up on the next service to bring it back.

It appeared that they had a problem with coaches going walkies but been found miles away , sometimes there would be a pattern it occured or tended to occure where army camps were !

In the past 5 years a mini bus was nicked from a depot in sheffield and found in an housing estate in huddersfield.

However , occasionly the "theft" can have a funny side:

Its 2am in the morning the duty officer of a certain bus depot is sat in his office auditing the nights work of cleaning/ fueling/ parking etc it appears that one bus doesnt appear on any of the list calls are made to other depots to make sure its not there the logs are checked staff are sent out to check bus stations and likely spots.

After senior management were informed the "theft" was reported to the police , 1/2 hour latter, phone rang its the police here, we ha ve found the bus its parked outside a prision with 30 police officers sat on it and a police officer driving . It transpired that the police had contacted them urgently that afternoon there had been a riot at the prision they needed a bus , so the company loaned them one on a self insure basis - this is standard practice - unfortunatley the duty officer at the bus depot had forgot to record it as been on loan to the police.

O dear lots of egg on faces and 31 very amused police officers, on this occasion it was funny in other cases it can be costly to the company and endanger the public as a bus in the wrong hands is dangerous.

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Having now thought about this , the theft of buses/coaches is a long standing problem there were several reports in the press around 5 years ago of coaches/ buses been nicked in the bristol area and been found in the glossop area.

Always found with no damage it was assumed they had been nicked by someone to get home. The fact that there was no no damage indicates that theve were driven by someone with a PCV or PSV as it was then.

There is a documented case in the 1950s of a aldershot and Dist coach been found in the coach park in sheffield after it didnt move for a bit SUT rang A&D and asked what it was doing there . O youve got it, have you, its been nicked theve left it at sheffield this time, right can you arrange for it to be checked over , well tell the police and send a driver up on the next service to bring it back.

It appeared that they had a problem with coaches going walkies but been found miles away , sometimes there would be a pattern it occured or tended to occure where army camps were !

In the past 5 years a mini bus was nicked from a depot in sheffield and found in an housing estate in huddersfield.

So it's not just getting home from a night club in town to a more suburban Sheffield council estate then.

Some of these journeys are hundreds of miles long and would have taken several hours to complete.

The military base connection makes sense as military personel would be given a "48 hour pass" for leave, often at weekends.

If there home was hundreds of miles from camp, they want to see their family and loved ones and they have to be back on time or face a charge they probably think nicking a bus will maximise their leave hours.

Further to this, some military personal PCV / PSV or not, will be trained in handling heavy vehicles such as lorries transporters and so a bus would perhaps not be too much of a challenge.

However, it is still a stupid and criminal thing to do.

I am sure that if caught as well as facing Civil proceedings (driving without licences/ insurance etc) and Criminal proceedings (taking a vehicle without the owners consent) in a civilian court they would also be facing a military Court Martial with the possible dishonourable discharge from the forces for this action.

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However , occasionly the "theft" can have a funny side:

Its 2am in the morning the duty officer of a certain bus depot is sat in his office auditing the nights work of cleaning/ fueling/ parking etc it appears that one bus doesnt appear on any of the list calls are made to other depots to make sure its not there the logs are checked staff are sent out to check bus stations and likely spots.

After senior management were informed the "theft" was reported to the police , 1/2 hour latter, phone rang its the police here, we ha ve found the bus its parked outside a prision with 30 police officers sat on it and a police officer driving . It transpired that the police had contacted them urgently that afternoon there had been a riot at the prision they needed a bus , so the company loaned them one on a self insure basis - this is standard practice - unfortunatley the duty officer at the bus depot had forgot to record it as been on loan to the police.

O dear lots of egg on faces and 31 very amused police officers, on this occasion it was funny in other cases it can be costly to the company and endanger the public as a bus in the wrong hands is dangerous.

I think this use of other peoples vehicles by authorised forces even without their given consent is called "commandeering". It was used extensively during the war. Many of the "little boats" used in the Dunkirk evacuation were "commandeered" for this mission. However, many very brave civilian boat owners, knowing the purpose for which their craft was required, volunteered to cross the channel in their boat to help out.

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Guest bus man

1108

having spend some time in the achive today doing some research ive found the following

1108 burnt out 16th February 1980 after been stolen dumped in a field at Brierly Common total write off was cut up on site.

The cause of the fire was arson .

The deisposal list as it as disposed to Mr C Bolton , The Bungalow , Brierly Gap .

I am assuming that this is the local scrap dealer as I cant find anything else been disposed of to him between 1979 and 1981 - the period I was looking at .

The only querry I have is where the bus was taken from I understand it was taken from Duke St doncaster the bus was on a change over ie a mechanic had taken it out to replace a bus but it was nicked.

As far it been the earliest arson there were no fires reported in 1979 next time in the arhive ill look in 1978 and see what I can find .

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1108

having spend some time in the achive today doing some research ive found the following

1108 burnt out 16th February 1980 after been stolen dumped in a field at Brierly Common total write off was cut up on site.

The cause of the fire was arson .

The deisposal list as it as disposed to Mr C Bolton , The Bungalow , Brierly Gap .

I am assuming that this is the local scrap dealer as I cant find anything else been disposed of to him between 1979 and 1981 - the period I was looking at .

The only querry I have is where the bus was taken from I understand it was taken from Duke St doncaster the bus was on a change over ie a mechanic had taken it out to replace a bus but it was nicked.

As far it been the earliest arson there were no fires reported in 1979 next time in the arhive ill look in 1978 and see what I can find .

Interesting stuff busman.

As I am still both amazed and outraged by this "bus crime" (amazed anyone would want to do it and outraged at the actual crime) I was really wondering was anyone ever caught and charged with stealing a bus and then burning it out?

If so, what sort of sentence would a court expect to pass on them?

I am the sort of person that thinks that modern sentences are often very lenient for the severity of the crime so I don't expect they would get what they really deserve! :angry:

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Guest transit

..an arson attack from April last year outside TM Travel's depot at Halfway......

YJ07JVC TM Travel VDL SB120 1186

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.transpirebus.org.uk/imdans2/burn03.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.transpirebus.org.uk/archives/anew2.aspx&usg=__afh08r63SyZQwMKzEmpmPT52RRc=&h=565&w=493&sz=96&hl=en&start=118&sig2=p8VzZFyzlkvNCNUnSwKswg&zoom=1&tbnid=xp6oLT7nWF8JCM:&tbnh=132&tbnw=115&ei=-YErTbGXDc394AbWl73rCQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsouth%2Byorks%2Bbus%2Barson%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1440%26bih%3D719%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C2508&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=317&vpy=396&dur=372&hovh=132&hovw=115&tx=117&ty=155&oei=m4ArTYrnGoyXhQfG5di3Dg&esq=13&page=5&ndsp=29&ved=1t:429,r:23,s:118&biw=1440&bih=719

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Guest brownncream

106 was stolen from Doncaster after the St. Ledger and was dumped in Darnall and set ablaze.

The picture of 1108 was shown as part of your H&S course when you started work at SYT. A number of off side shots exist as well as a group of shots taken from the windows of a Flat at Middlewood when an Ailsa went up in smoke. I wonder where the archive has gone now, as I saw a number of the pictures for sale on ebay.

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106 was stolen from Doncaster after the St. Ledger and was dumped in Darnall and set ablaze.

So, given what has been said earlier in this topic about this type of crime,

It was most likely a group of lads from the Darnall area who had a day out at the races, had a few too many drinks then lost more money on the horses than they bargained on leaving them without their fare home.

So at this point they must have thought the best way to get home having lost their bus fare would be to nick the bus and drive it home. :blink:

Then dump it and burn it out to try to destroy any forensic evidence they had stolen it! :o

Criminal! :angry:

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Guest bus man

106 was stolen from Doncaster after the St. Ledger and was dumped in Darnall and set ablaze.

The picture of 1108 was shown as part of your H&S course when you started work at SYT. A number of off side shots exist as well as a group of shots taken from the windows of a Flat at Middlewood when an Ailsa went up in smoke. I wonder where the archive has gone now, as I saw a number of the pictures for sale on ebay.

The shots of the ailsa 417 was taken by the official pte photographer who was at middlewood terminus doing another job , the shots are very intresting

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106 was stolen from Doncaster after the St. Ledger and was dumped in Darnall and set ablaze.

I wonder where the archive has gone now, as I saw a number of the pictures for sale on ebay.

Well, in 1995 a lot of them finished up with a guy who had a stall in Chesterfield market. Whilst searching through a box of car photos I asked if he had any of old Sheffield buses. It turned out that an hour earlier I would have had the bargain of a lifetime, he told me he had found quite a lot in a skip when the old Queens Road workshops were being pulled down, he had just sold the lot ! W/E.

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At first glance I thought this was something from the Sheffield blitz ..

Bus destroyed in an accident at Wharncliffe Side .. picturesheffield

Was Reg: 'BWA 212' a Sheffield bus ?

something dosnt add up here, says here it was Rochdale Corporation in 1948 and was Ex sheffield http://www.petergould.co.uk/local_transport_history/fleetlists/rochdale2.htm

but the picture shows it as destroyed :unsure:

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At first glance I thought this was something from the Sheffield blitz ..

Bus destroyed in an accident at Wharncliffe Side .. picturesheffield

Was Reg: 'BWA 212' a Sheffield bus ?

I notice that the photo was taken by F. H. Brindley.

I used to work with his son, who also went by the same names. Frank (Junior)used to bring in to work large quantities of his fathers wonderful high defination photographs.

Sadly Frank Junior died a couple of years ago and I don't know what will have happened to his photo collection.

A lot of them seem to be on Picture Sheffield 'so hopefully many will have survived.

Some of the most memorable photos featured huge piles of WW2 bombs stacked beside minor roads in the peak district.

These dumps extended for hundreds of yards and were piled many feet high. Presumably they must have been stacked when the threat from the Luftwaffe was past.

HD

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something dosnt add up here, says here it was Rochdale Corporation in 1948 and was Ex sheffield http://www.petergould.co.uk/local_transport_history/fleetlists/rochdale2.htm

but the picture shows it as destroyed :unsure:

Thanks andyrad,

It wouldn't be the first time that Local Studies (picturesheffield)

have got their dates wrong !

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something dosnt add up here, says here it was Rochdale Corporation in 1948 and was Ex sheffield http://www.petergould.co.uk/local_transport_history/fleetlists/rochdale2.htm

but the picture shows it as destroyed :unsure:

In short, Sheffield 112 AEC Regent/Weymann was new in June 1935. The Wharncliffe Side accident causing the fire was February 18th 1936. Chassis was sent to Weymann for rebodying in May 1936 and the bus re-entered service in September of that year. Sold to Rochdale Corporation in June 1948.

(With acknowledgement to Sheffield Transport Study Group for this information)

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In short, Sheffield 112 AEC Regent/Weymann was new in June 1935. The Wharncliffe Side accident causing the fire was February 18th 1936. Chassis was sent to Weymann for rebodying in May 1936 and the bus re-entered service in September of that year. Sold to Rochdale Corporation in June 1948.

cheers for clearing that up oldrowley, I was going to consult my Sheffield Transport "bible" by Chas Hall when i got home from work, I bet its detailed in there about it...

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I can't see anything in Chas C Hall's book about this incident, but a thorough search hasn't been undertaken yet. There isn't even a note about the rebodying in the fleetlist section.

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Guest bus man

On way back from sandtoft we showed out respect 30566 we noticed that the hard shoulder where the incident occured is a differant colour as its been resurfaced

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On way back from sandtoft we showed out respect 30566 we noticed that the hard shoulder where the incident occured is a differant colour as its been resurfaced

Given that Tarmac is very easily softened and melted by warming it up (ideal proprties if you want to lay the stuff) and that oily liquids like petrol and Diesel dissolve its Bitumen content I would think that a fire or a big fuel spillage would do considerable damage to a tarmac road surface to the extent that it would need a lot of repair or even resurfacing.

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I notice that the photo was taken by F. H. Brindley.

I used to work with his son, who also went by the same names. Frank (Junior)used to bring in to work large quantities of his fathers wonderful high defination photographs.

Sadly Frank Junior died a couple of years ago and I don't know what will have happened to his photo collection.

A lot of them seem to be on Picture Sheffield 'so hopefully many will have survived.

Some of the most memorable photos featured huge piles of WW2 bombs stacked beside minor roads in the peak district.

These dumps extended for hundreds of yards and were piled many feet high. Presumably they must have been stacked when the threat from the Luftwaffe was past.

HD

Hi HD

A little off topic I'm afraid but do you know of photos on Picture Sheffield of the munitions dumps. There was a topic on the Sheffield Forum on this subject in 2005-6 but we never found photos. Any assistance would be appreciated.

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Hi HD

A little off topic I'm afraid but do you know of photos on Picture Sheffield of the munitions dumps. There was a topic on the Sheffield Forum on this subject in 2005-6 but we never found photos. Any assistance would be appreciated.

As I said in the post Frank (junior) died several years ago. I do know that Frank, who was a hoarder of anything that no-one else wanted, had a very extensive collection of his fathers photos. They were of very high quality and covered all aspects of Sheffield and Derbyshire in the 20's through to the 40's. Frank (senior) was obviously a professional photographer and seemed to concentrate on unusual and historic subjects. If you look up tunnels on Picture Sheffield, you will find a couple of Frank (senior)'s photo's of the Hartshead Tunnel. Frank (junior) lived at Greenhill and was survived by his widow and a daughter that lived in the West country. I sincerely hope that his photos survive and that they could be placed in the Sheffield Archives.

In the bomb photos he showed me there must have been thousands of bombs and I seem to remember he told me that they were arranged along country roads in the Wirksworth area. They must have been placed there when the danger from the Luftwaffe was non existent because one enemy bomb among them would have moved Derbyshire to Shropshire.

hilldweller

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