Abbeydale Park Lodge

[Guest scarsdale037]

My great grandfather, one conveniently named John William SMITH b1878, worked as a domestic gardener and is listed in the 1901 Census as living at Abbeydale Park Lodge.

Does anyone know any background information about the Park, its house and or have any photographs from this time. Was the Lodge owned by Abbeydale House, and would John Smith have been employed there as a gardener? Why would a lowly domestic gardener be housed in the Lodge. Was the lodge at the gates of the Park and is it still there?

Many questions, so can anybody help me put some clothes onto the bones of my family history. Many thanks.

Les

[RichardB]

My great grandfather, one conveniently named John William SMITH b1878, worked as a domestic gardener and is listed in the 1901 Census as living at Abbeydale Park Lodge.

Does anyone know any background information about the Park, its house and or have any photographs from this time. Was the Lodge owned by Abbeydale House, and would John Smith have been employed there as a gardener? Why would a lowly domestic gardener be housed in the Lodge. Was the lodge at the gates of the Park and is it still there?

Many questions, so can anybody help me put some clothes onto the bones of my family history. Many thanks.

Les

Welcome to you Scarsdale; that has to be the most unfortunate combination of information a John Smith and reaching adulthood just when the majority of "old" records fade out.

A slight one from out of "left field" - have a prod around for Ebenezer Hall (J.P., Magistrate 1893) I think he owned a lot of property around there.

Hopefully someone else can contribute; it sounds like you need it :rolleyes:

[Bayleaf]

Hi Les and welcome to the Forum!

A search on Picture Sheffield throws up 9 pictures. One from around 1900 has the following information in the caption

"Family of Athol Capron in Humber car at Greenoak House, Baslow Road, Totley. The family of Athol Capron (consisting of his wife, 4 children & donkey) moved into Greenoak House in 1899, paying £90 p.a. rent to Ebenezer Hall of Abbeydale Park (My italics)

Looking at the others, it would suggest that the house attached to Abbeydale Park was Abbeydale Hall.

Not directly relevant, but you might find this interesting. Apparently Abbeydale Hall was originally called Abbeydale Villa.

Elsewhere the names Abbeydale Park and Abbeydale Hall seem interchangable.

[RichardB]

Hi Les and welcome to the Forum!

A search on Picture Sheffield throws up 9 pictures. One from around 1900 has the following information in the caption

"Family of Athol Capron in Humber car at Greenoak House, Baslow Road, Totley. The family of Athol Capron (consisting of his wife, 4 children & donkey) moved into Greenoak House in 1899, paying £90 p.a. rent to Ebenezer Hall of Abbeydale Park (My italics)

Looking at the others, it would suggest that the house attached to Abbeydale Park was Abbeydale Hall.

1901

[Stuart0742]

1901

Theres an article about Ebenezer Hall in one of Brian Edwards books about Totley

I shall try and find my copy tomorrow

[Guest scarsdale037]

Thanks for the lead. Bayleaf has also made the same connection and kindly pointed me to a link.

My other side of th family comes from a long line on 'nailers' from the Midlands, slightly easier to trace but not by much.

Sadly John Smith had a father called William Smith whose own father was another John Smith. As far as I can determine at the moment William Smith was a policeman in Kings Lynn (West Lynn) so why he moved to Sheffield I have yet to discover.

Anyhow thanks for the lead- and so fast ... gulp.. how can I keep up with you lot!

[Guest scarsdale037]

Thanks for the 1901 Census Richard. Much appreciated. I did a search and looked at the images but missed the one about the "Family from Athol..." Thanks, Les

[RichardB]

1891 Ebenezer Hall

[RichardB]

1881 Ebenezer Hall

[Guest scarsdale037]

Thanks Richard.

So it would seem that The Rudds occupied the Abbeydale Lodge in 1881, hardly surprising as John Smith was only 13 in the 1881 Census.

So he must just have started as a young gardener at the Lodge by the time he was 23 in the 1891 Census - not a bad abode for him and his three children at that age.

I have tried to find him and his father (yes, you guessed it another boring Smith with a common name, this time a William SMITH b.abt 1852 in West Lynn) in the 1881 Census they are in 23 Deep Pits and John Smith is 3 ys old.

When his father William Smith the Policeman moved from Kings Lynn to Sheffield I have no idea. I cannot find him in the Sheffield Census for 1871. So I'll need to check in the Kings Lynn area for him. You couldn't confirm that William Smith (b. as above) is NOT in the Sheffield area in 1871 could you? I'd be most grateful.

I've also been looking at other images and came across the Firth photos and book. Small world. My grandmother once told me that my grandfather Reg (John Smith's son) was a chauffeur for a Mark Firth - I assume he was one of the Firth dynasty.

Thanks again. Les

[dunsbyowl1867]

my grandfather Reg (John Smith's son) was a chauffeur for a Mark Firth - I assume he was one of the Firth dynasty.

Thanks again. Les

Les - Mark Firth was one of the great Sheffield manuafacturers and a great benefactor to the City

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Firth

[RichardB]

Thanks Richard.

So it would seem that The Rudds occupied the Abbeydale Lodge in 1881, hardly surprising as John Smith was only 13 in the 1881 Census.

So he must just have started as a young gardener at the Lodge by the time he was 23 in the 1891 Census - not a bad abode for him and his three children at that age.

I have tried to find him and his father (yes, you guessed it another boring Smith with a common name, this time a William SMITH b.abt 1852 in West Lynn) in the 1881 Census they are in 23 Deep Pits and John Smith is 3 ys old.

When his father William Smith the Policeman moved from Kings Lynn to Sheffield I have no idea. I cannot find him in the Sheffield Census for 1871. So I'll need to check in the Kings Lynn area for him. You couldn't confirm that William Smith (b. as above) is NOT in the Sheffield area in 1871 could you? I'd be most grateful.

I've also been looking at other images and came across the Firth photos and book. Small world. My grandmother once told me that my grandfather Reg (John Smith's son) was a chauffeur for a Mark Firth - I assume he was one of the Firth dynasty.

Thanks again. Les

I can't make any claims about the validity of this, but he's 20, called William Smith and born in West Lynn and, no, he's not in Sheffield in 1871.

[Guest scarsdale037]

Many thanks Richard.

He would seem a likely candidate. The age and place of birth is right. I'll take myself down to Kings Lynn for a week when the weather improves and look in the local records office, and take in a few graveyards too.

I have his marriage cert and he married at 23 to Mary Eliza Howlett, a girl from Harrow Lane, Sheffield. A change from a Smith and a name you can get your teeth into.

If he was a horse tender at 20, he must have joined the Police in the intervening three years. His address in Sheffield is Hill St, and on the cert it says Parish of St Mary's, Sheffield. Is that in the Woodhouse area of Sheffield? I spent some time in the Dore area the year before last as they seemed to move there (next to Abbeydale), but I feel a visit to Woodhouse coming on... and to get some Police records - preferable not mine ..

Thanks. Les

[RichardB]

I have his marriage cert and he married at 23 to Mary Eliza Howlett, a girl from Harrow Lane, Sheffield. A change from a Smith and a name you can get your teeth into.

Harrow Lane ? Not sure I can place that one; can anyone assist please ?

[Bayleaf]

Harrow Lane ? Not sure I can place that one; can anyone assist please ?

There's a Harrow street between Napier St and Ecclesall Rd. Perhaps it was around there? (Not far from Hill St either)

[Guest scarsdale037]

It looks like Harrow Lane on the certificate. I don't seem to be able to find his address either. I can find the Parish Church of St Mary's in Priory Road, Ecclesfield. Perhaps they no longer exist. (WWII bombing?).

Les

The more I enlarge it the more it looks as though the H could be Sh because there is a Sharrow Lane and it's not far from Hill Street. Would they both be in the Parish of St Mary's I wonder?

[Bayleaf]

It looks like Harrow Lane on the certificate. I don't seem to be able to find his address either. I can find the Parish Church of St Mary's in Priory Road, Ecclesfield. Perhaps they no longer exist. (WWII bombing?).

Les

The more I enlarge it the more it looks as though the H could be Sh because there is a Sharrow Lane and it's not far from Hill Street. Would they both be in the Parish of St Mary's I wonder?

I think you're right Les, it looks like Sharrow Lane to me too. I seem to remember somewhere on here there's a map of parish boundaries. Anyone seen it?

[SteveHB]

I think you're right Les, it looks like Sharrow Lane to me too. I seem to remember somewhere on here there's a map of parish boundaries. Anyone seen it?

I have this map on disk,

sorry but not sure who posted it or where abouts.

[RichardB]

I have this map on disk,

sorry but not sure who posted it or where abouts.

I posted that (maybe others too), no idea where, should be in Maps and other stuff, but, may have been a good long while ago.

[SteveHB]

I posted that (maybe others too), no idea where, should be in Maps and other stuff, but, may have been a good long while ago.

I got the map from ADMIN's Topic here .. Old maps of Sheffield

[RichardB]

I got the map from ADMIN's Topic here .. Old maps of Sheffield

So long as we got 'em, Mrs Miggins could benefit from a where are all the Maps index listing ... one many things on the list no doubt.