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How Did Court Addresses Work?


Guest Touche

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Guest Touche

My Great Grandfather is listed on the 1911 census as living at 8/5 Furnace Hill.

Upon his death in 1913 his home address is given as 8 Court, Furnace Hill.

Does this imply that he lived in the fifth house in Court 8? Does anyone know how this system worked?

Was there a random number of houses per Court or was it a fixed amount?

Hope someone can advise me, thank you for reading this.

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My Great Grandfather is listed on the 1911 census as living at 8/5 Furnace Hill.

Upon his death in 1913 his home address is given as 8 Court, Furnace Hill.

Does this imply that he lived in the fifth house in Court 8? Does anyone know how this system worked?

Was there a random number of houses per Court or was it a fixed amount?

Hope someone can advise me, thank you for reading this.

I can't wait to see the definitive answer to this one, my answer - it's all a jumbled mess :blink: Nearly as bad as Street numbering.

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My Great Grandfather is listed on the 1911 census as living at 8/5 Furnace Hill.

Upon his death in 1913 his home address is given as 8 Court, Furnace Hill.

Does this imply that he lived in the fifth house in Court 8? Does anyone know how this system worked?

Was there a random number of houses per Court or was it a fixed amount?

Hope someone can advise me, thank you for reading this.

Yes it does Touche, correctly interpreted

8/5 means "8 court 5 house"

I only know this because when I was born in 1955 my home was 2/2 Wentworth Street, to which the registrar who registered my birth certificate has very kindly written for my parents home address "2ct. 2hse. Wentworth Street".

As houses were back to back to make the ones along a road (which only had a number) back onto something meant building directly behind them. This was done by putting an entry every so often along the road into a yard or "court which had the houses behind.

Some of our 1950's OS maps clearly show this structure, why not try looking for Furnace Hill if his house still existed in the 1950's?

The courts did vary in size but a common number seemed to be 8, 2 houses on each side of the court.

The court itself was a communal area containing outside (frequently shared) toilet blocks, an area for drying washing, an outside tap and somewhere to hang a tin bath. The courts were demolished in the 1950's under inner city slum clearance because not only did the houses have no internal bathroom and toilet they were back to back terrace and so only had one "front" with a door and window which would restrict natural light and air circulation. Because of this most of them were either "2 up 2 down" or even just "2 up" in construction making a total of either 4 or possibly just 2 rooms in the entire house (although many also had a cellar". Ours was a "2 up" having a cellar for storage, a living room with a "kitchen" of sorts on the staircase head which lead from the cellar to ground floor (living room) and then to the first floor which was a single large bedroom, often divided into 2 with a hanging sheet.

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Guest Touche

Link to picturesheffield .. No. 7 House in Court No. 8 Furnace Hill

Link to picturesheffield .. Rear of No. 6 andamp; 1 in Court No. 8 Furnace Hill

Thank you DaveH, an excellent description, many thanks. It all makes sense now. As you can see, I have included the two photographs, the rear of number 6 house and number 7 house, both of 8 Court Furnace Hill. Arggh! So near and yet so far! Still, you can't get much closer than this can you! Both were taken in 1920 prior to demolition. Call me a modern day cynic but someone seems to be nicking the lead off the roof already! Seriously though, in the 1911 census, James and Elizabeth (my great grandparents) had six children between 9 days and 16 years old, all living here in house number 5 which had (just like you said DaveH) 4 rooms. Phew - and we moan today. It must have been harder than we can ever imagine. I take my hat (if I had one) off to them. Many thanks DaveH, you have put my mind at rest. Now I need to find maps of pre-1920 though that may be difficult.

Much Appreciated, Touche.

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Link to picturesheffield .. No. 7 House in Court No. 8 Furnace Hill

Link to picturesheffield .. Rear of No. 6 andamp; 1 in Court No. 8 Furnace Hill

Thank you DaveH, an excellent description, many thanks. It all makes sense now. As you can see, I have included the two photographs, the rear of number 6 house and number 7 house, both of 8 Court Furnace Hill. Arggh! So near and yet so far! Still, you can't get much closer than this can you! Both were taken in 1920 prior to demolition. Call me a modern day cynic but someone seems to be nicking the lead off the roof already! Seriously though, in the 1911 census, James and Elizabeth (my great grandparents) had six children between 9 days and 16 years old, all living here in house number 5 which had (just like you said DaveH) 4 rooms. Phew - and we moan today. It must have been harder than we can ever imagine. I take my hat (if I had one) off to them. Many thanks DaveH, you have put my mind at rest. Now I need to find maps of pre-1920 though that may be difficult.

Much Appreciated, Touche.

My pleasure Touche, - a little knowledge shared is what this site is all about.

Many large families seem to have been brought up in these tiny insanitary houses in the past.

No wonder the infant mortality rate was so high and that in old photographs people seemed to spend more time out on the street than stuck in their houses.

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For more pictures of this type of housing have a look in this thread

Sheffield slums

Thanks Dave, forgotten I'd started that one.

Now, somewhere is a remarkable text piece describing Bailey Lane and the 1,000 or so people that lived along its (short) length (150 yards ??); windows and drainage below the level of the street; quite revolting really.

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Guest Gramps

Now I need to find maps of pre-1920 though that may be difficult.

Much Appreciated, Touche.

This is the 1903 plan of Furnace Hill.

If you're in Sheffield then you can see the very large scale plans of 1893 (15ins/mile ??) in the Local Studies library.

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Guest Touche

Thanks everyone, these photos etc are just incredible and quite shocking in that some of these places are still in present day living memory. But, like I remember my grandmothers old home in Attercliffe (Melville Road), they are looked back on with a strange sort of fondness. The families that lived in each yard all knew each other and looked out for each other. Now we live in our boxes and sometimes rarely know or see our neighbours. Am I wearing rose coloured spectacles? I think so but can't help it. What obviously strikes me in the Courts etc are the height of the buildings compared to lack of space around them. Airborne disease must have been rife with no air circulation at all. My great grandfather who lived on Furnace Hill died at 37 of pneumonia, as did many of my family up until the fifties. Dampness all around. It must have been grim. Moving out to the new estates such as Woodthorpe must have been by comparison a breath of fresh air, literally! Any comments on this would be greatly valued and keep it coming please!!

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Thanks Dave, forgotten I'd started that one.

Now, somewhere is a remarkable text piece describing Bailey Lane and the 1,000 or so people that lived along its (short) length (150 yards ??); windows and drainage below the level of the street; quite revolting really.

... and here is the article I was thinking of. Read, consider ...

"There is no Public sewer in Bailey-field, and most of the court yards are below the level of the street. The street however is well paved."

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wow, how appalling is that! My rose coloured spectacles have been consigned to the bin!

I must have read that twenty times now, still brings on a shudder. Just picture that in your mind's eye; or think of it coming in via your kitchen window !

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Thanks everyone, these photos etc are just incredible and quite shocking in that some of these places are still in present day living memory. But, like I remember my grandmothers old home in Attercliffe (Melville Road), they are looked back on with a strange sort of fondness. The families that lived in each yard all knew each other and looked out for each other. Now we live in our boxes and sometimes rarely know or see our neighbours. Am I wearing rose coloured spectacles? I think so but can't help it. What obviously strikes me in the Courts etc are the height of the buildings compared to lack of space around them. Airborne disease must have been rife with no air circulation at all. My great grandfather who lived on Furnace Hill died at 37 of pneumonia, as did many of my family up until the fifties. Dampness all around. It must have been grim. Moving out to the new estates such as Woodthorpe must have been by comparison a breath of fresh air, literally! Any comments on this would be greatly valued and keep it coming please!!

They were probably exactly as you describe here in terms of health.

In particular for lung diseases most of these courts were built in industrial areas so that workers who lived in them would be near their place of work. As Sheffield was very industrial this means that the air around these buildings would be full of dirt, grime and pollution produced by the burning of coal and the manufacture and working of steel items, - being breathed in constantly by the inhabitants of the area.

I spent my first 3 years of life in one of these buildings and yes my parents do remember them in a "it was not so bad really but we were really glad to get out" sort of way. Although I wonder if moving from industrial grime to asbestos built prefabs was better or worse for my health in terms of lung diseases, even though the prefab offered a much more luxurious standard of living, - more space, garden, no staircase, all electrics, a fridge etc.

My grandmother lived in such a court off Devonshire Street until 1962 when she moved to Park Hill flats so the courts certainly persisted well into living memory and into modern times.

Wonder when the last court was cleared, or, if there are any still left?

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Guest skeets

I can't wait to see the definitive answer to this one, my answer - it's all a jumbled mess :blink: Nearly as bad as Street numbering.

THE NUMBER OF THE HOUSE IS FIRST THEN THE NUMBER OF THE COURT FOR EX; MY OLD ADDRESS WAS 50/CT 4

. SKEETS

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THE NUMBER OF THE HOUSE IS FIRST THEN THE NUMBER OF THE COURT FOR EX; MY OLD ADDRESS WAS 50/CT 4

. SKEETS

You could be right skeets,

The numbering order is a bit ambiguous on this and I did wonder which way round they were when I did the original reply

However my birth certificate does say 2ct. 2 hse Wentworth Street giving court and house in that order.

All other references to my old address just say 2/2 Wentworth Street, which is unhelpful in this case as the court and house number are identical so there is no confusion.

Your old address confuses me

House 4 in Court 50 would make sense to me as a long road could easily have 50 courts of up to 8 houses

House 50 in Court 4 would be a very large court if 50 houses were grouped around one small court. This is more like the "tenament block" system than the small works yard courts.

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Guest Touche

Thank you for that...does this mean then that my g-grandfathers actual address was in actual fact the eighth house of Court number 5? You have turned this around, well done. Is there any information as to when these courts were, and I say this ironically, 'in their prime'. When they were first built etc. Did they originally have cess pits and nightwatchmen empty them at night? The stench must have been unbearable. There are preserved examples of back to back houses in Birmingham but I'm not sure if there are any locally. Sanitation and water supplies must have been dreadful. Thanks all.

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Thank you for that...does this mean then that my g-grandfathers actual address was in actual fact the eighth house of Court number 5? You have turned this around, well done. Is there any information as to when these courts were, and I say this ironically, 'in their prime'. When they were first built etc. Did they originally have cess pits and nightwatchmen empty them at night? The stench must have been unbearable. There are preserved examples of back to back houses in Birmingham but I'm not sure if there are any locally. Sanitation and water supplies must have been dreadful. Thanks all.

Your numbers seem to fit the pattern of a small court as the numbers are both less than 10, that makes it even more confusing now!

Is it House 5 in Court 8

or is it House 8 in Court 5

??? :blink: ???

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I'll try to explain how I think you may work it out

Bearing in mind the principal of odd numbers on one side - even on the opposite.

On map 3 1950's OS maps, All the courts have been demolished.

But - The first house on the right going up is shown as No. 12, just after the Church Hall.

The low odd numbers have all gone.

If it can be established when The Hall was built - ie. before or after 1911 then you can deduce that - if the hall was there already there could not have been a court 8 at that time. Therefore it must have been across the road (odd numbers) making it court 5.

Also - I just looked at the 1903 map - The Hall is not yet built but there doesn't seem to be a court (on the right hand side) in the correct possition to be number 8.

The buildings on the left are the only ones which can fit the bill as courts in the low numbers.

There are none shown on the right hand side in the area where Court no. 8 should be.

Therefore I think it must be court 5, house 8 - somewhere in the red box.

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Just to stick my twopennorth in.....

My grandad, his siblings, all 12 of them and his parents lived in Court 11, House 24, Penistone Road and from the map attached kindly sent to me via this site shows the numbering system if this helps to translate to your courts?

My grandad used to tell me a couple of his brothers used to sleep up on the tip because it was so crowded, but that everyone fed everyone elses children in the court depending on who had food in that day. He described that they sort of all roamed from house to house each day and it seemed to involve consuming a lot of Yorkshire puddings! Filling and relatively cheap I suppose.

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There's nothing difficult about the numbering of the court houses if you

lived in them you understood how it worked. Mine was 2/2 but always

spoken as 2 court 2.

If ever you received a letter or card [ not often ] then the postman

would need to find the court first , then deliver to the number of the house.

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There's nothing difficult about the numbering of the court houses if you

lived in them you understood how it worked. Mine was 2/2 but always

spoken as 2 court 2.

If ever you received a letter or card [ not often ] then the postman

would need to find the court first , then deliver to the number of the house.

It appears that ukelele lady agrees with my original statement on court first then house numbering. She also appears to have the same court and house address as me (but NOT the same street) which has the same symetry of numbers ( 2/2) which is still ambiguous if you live in a house where the numbers aren't the same.

I think I tend to agree with UL on this method of numbering though as it agrees with what is written on my birth certificate.

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I can't wait to see the definitive answer to this one, my answer - it's all a jumbled mess :blink: Nearly as bad as Street numbering.

I think the Difinitive answer is:

House 5, Court 8 would be correct because of the historic and logical way of addressing. Addresses always start with the most precise piece of information, and then become more general as they continue.

Mr. X

Flat Y

Number Z (or building name)

Road Name

Area

Town

Etc Etc.

The building name being of course, in this instance, Court 8

-----------

As for Street numbering Richard, I must say I don't have too many problems with the system. It's people who don't bother to display their number, or if they do, have a tiny one on the door 20 yards away from the road. I regularly have to find any house with a prominent number and then count as many as a dozen or more houses untill I get to the right one.

Shops who think their business is so important and well known that all they need to give as far as an address is concerned is something like "The Beauty Center", Ecclesall Road.

Equally bad are the ones who think that a house name is sufficient. Try finding Regent House, Queens Road when that's all you have to go on.

Then just to rub it in, when you finally find one of these "hidden places" and mention the trouble you had, they say something like "oh yes, people often have a problem finding us"

:angry:

Soap Box --- etc

Edit. - I've just seen the 2 previous posts, Dave and UL. posted while I was still writing. Looks like my logic approach is outvoted.

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I hate to be the voice of doom on this but having a lot of relatives having lived in courts, I thought I would try and help by looking through my birth, death and marriages certificates too numerous to mention and the census records I have

and the conclusion is.........

Depending on who recorded or registered the BMD event and depending on who recorded the census information, they seem to basically put what they like whichever way round they like, which doesnt help!!!

I remember having the same problem with trying to determine my grandads address as it was shown 2 different ways on 2 census records so I went with the info on the BMD records as these were a bit more specific.

On my certificates these addresses have been recorded in the following few ways:

17Ct Scotland Street - no number

19Ct Scotland Street - no number

24 Court XI

Court 11 Penistone Road - no number

24 in Court 11 Penistone Road

5 Court Green Lane - no number

3 Ct 4 H Cotton Mill Walk

11/1 Penistone Road

10 Court 2 House Garden Street

another top tip is to go back on the census records a few pages as sometimes they will start with the exact court number and then revert to shorthand of 11/1 etc. I have found this helpful in a few cases.

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I think the Difinitive answer is:

House 5, Court 8 would be correct because of the historic and logical way of addressing. Addresses always start with the most precise piece of information, and then become more general as they continue.

Mr. X

Flat Y

Number Z (or building name)

Road Name

Area

Town

Etc Etc.

The building name being of course, in this instance, Court 8

-----------

As for Street numbering Richard, I must say I don't have too many problems with the system. It's people who don't bother to display their number, or if they do, have a tiny one on the door 20 yards away from the road. I regularly have to find any house with a prominent number and then count as many as a dozen or more houses untill I get to the right one.

Shops who think their business is so important and well known that all they need to give as far as an address is concerned is something like "The Beauty Center", Ecclesall Road.

Equally bad are the ones who think that a house name is sufficient. Try finding Regent House, Queens Road when that's all you have to go on.

Then just to rub it in, when you finally find one of these "hidden places" and mention the trouble you had, they say something like "oh yes, people often have a problem finding us"

:angry:

Soap Box --- etc

Edit. - I've just seen the 2 previous posts, Dave and UL. posted while I was still writing. Looks like my logic approach is outvoted.

Yes but which one is right?

I don't mind being proved wrong but it would be nice to know the correct answer.

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I hate to be the voice of doom on this but having a lot of relatives having lived in courts, I thought I would try and help by looking through my birth, death and marriages certificates too numerous to mention and the census records I have

and the conclusion is.........

Depending on who recorded or registered the BMD event and depending on who recorded the census information, they seem to basically put what they like whichever way round they like, which doesnt help!!!

I remember having the same problem with trying to determine my grandads address as it was shown 2 different ways on 2 census records so I went with the info on the BMD records as these were a bit more specific.

On my certificates these addresses have been recorded in the following few ways:

17Ct Scotland Street - no number

19Ct Scotland Street - no number

24 Court XI

Court 11 Penistone Road - no number

24 in Court 11 Penistone Road

5 Court Green Lane - no number

3 Ct 4 H Cotton Mill Walk

11/1 Penistone Road

10 Court 2 House Garden Street

another top tip is to go back on the census records a few pages as sometimes they will start with the exact court number and then revert to shorthand of 11/1 etc. I have found this helpful in a few cases.

I agree with you on this, it all depends on who wrote it out.

Looking at your example most of them have had the court written first.

On my families marriage, birth certificates etc the odd one have written hse number first but most have the court first, which is ok as long as it is made clear 13 crt 1hse for example. The confusion starts when it's written 13/1. only the

person living there knows which way round it is.

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