Comparative Trials 1978

[Peter Hall]

To introduce another odd bus from the seventies, does anyone remember the orange and white Dennis test-bed, an ex Leeds Daimler apparently being used to test the Voith transmission to be used in the Dominator. I remember it operating in Sheffield, usually on the 75 and 76. It stood out on account of it's colour and by the time it arrived there were virtually no rear entrance buses left in Sheffield.

My notes with regard to this bus are that it was a Daimler CVG6LX/30 with Roe H38/32R bodywork, road regerstration 7517 UA. It had been purchased by Dennis Motors who had fitted it with a Voith transmission with a view to this type of transmission being used in the prototype Dennis Dominator then being developed and was trialed in Sheffield due to the hills. My records show it was used almost continually on svc 75/76 from 8th April 1976 until 17th August 1976. As 'madannie77' says by this time only a few rear entrance buses were in use (see 'last day specials thread') and if I am not mistaken there use at Eastbank garage and thus on service 75/76 ceased during the stay of 7517 UA. The last few 'back loaders' surviving at Leadmill garage until the end of 1976. I certainly remember 7517 UA giving some sprightly performances on the hills!

To clarify the fitting of buses with Voith transmissions. 7517 UA pre-dated Leyland 'Atlantean' AN68A/1R/East Lancs H43/32F - NAK 323R (323) mentioned in my previous posting. NAK 323R being the first rear engined bus fitted with Voith transmission whilst 7517 UA I believe was the first front engined Voith bus.

The only 'back loaders' left in service when 7517 UA departed according to my records were Regents, 439, 451, 458, 460, 878, all of which survived in service until December 1976 if I am not mistaken.

[Peter Hall]

Probably worth giving my comments with regard to Seddon buses in Sheffield. I do though appreciate that the mind is good at muddling the time line of events and thus the value of dated notes.

Clearly, before my time, Seddon RU/Pennine B43D TBU 598G was used in Sheffield in c1969 and I suspect this might be what is being recalled as being used on svc 51 by littlemalc. Certainly that would appear to be the case from various postings.

Obviously Doncaster and Rotherham Corporations had sizeable fleets of Seddons. The Rotherham ones were seen regularly in Sheffield on the Blackburn works service and also on associated svc 69 journeys. The only use I can recall of a Doncaster example was as decribed by 'bus man':-

ironicly a ex doncaster sedon ended up at east bank when they were short it was used on clipper and other eb working i have a shot of it at millhouses turning circle

which, if I recall correctly, was a result of the overnight withdrawal of the first batch of bendy's in September 1981. It is though quite possible others examples apeared in Sheffield when SYPTE owned.

My notes show that in November 1975 a Seddon 'Pennine' IV/36 B19F - HJA 126N from GMPTE was examined at Central Works but I am not aware of it being used in service. I stand to be corrected, but believe the GMPTE examples had a different mechanical configuration to those in Doncaster and thus the reason why this one was borrowed.

Subsequently the two battery powered Seddons were borrowed from GMPTE. XVU 387M - Seddon 'Pennine' RU33/B43D and GNC 276N - Seddon 'Pennine' Lucas/B19F. Both saw use in Doncaster in Summer 1976 and Spring 1977 respectively and probably also visited Sheffield but I do not record them seeing passenger use in the Steel City.

As has already been mentioned XVU 387M also visited Sheffield in May 1978 in connection with the electric vehicles conference, but did not see passenger use.

[Peter Hall]

New to this group and thus seeing some of these threads for the first time. I have also recently dug out my notes from the SYPTE operating era (1974-1986) and thus may be able to help further with this query. Thus, from my notes mainly compiled at the time.

The five buses in the picture were referred to, at the time, as the 'famous five and were rigouresly tested on service 51 in the summer of 1978. From left to right they are:-

Leyland 'Titan' B15/Park Royal H44/27D - Leyland TL11 engine/Pneumocyclic gearbox - NHG 732P ('530') - Leyland prototype/demonstrator

MCW 'Metrobus H43/28D - Gardner engine/Voith gearbox - TOJ 592S ('500') - MCW prototype/demonstrator

Foden MZC/East Lancs H45/29D - Gardner engine / Allison gearbox - SWG 311S (511)

Dennis Dominator DD101A/East Lancs H45/28D ' Rolls Royce Eagle engine / SCG auto-control - UET 621S (521)

Ailsa-Volvo B55-10 Mk.II/Van Hool-McArdle H43/31D - Turbo charged Volvo TD70E engine/ SCG automatic gearbox - SHL 930S (430)

Another picture exists which must have been taken on 27th July with an additional three vehicles added:-

Leyland 'Atlantean' AN68A/1R/East Lancs H43/32F - Voith D851 transmission - NAK 323R (323) - This was the first bus fitted with Voith transmission.

Leyland 'Titan' B15/Park Royal H47/26F - FHG 592S - Leyland prototype/demonstrator - This was trailed but never used by passengers in Sheffield.

Leyland 'Atlantean' AN68A/1R/Roe H45/29D - VET6xxS (16xx) - This was one of a batch being delivered at the time and if I recall correctly was also used on the 51 to give a bench mark to compare the new designs against.

In addition present, but not included in the photograph was Foden NZC/Northern Counties H43/30F - WTO 101S then in service with Derby City Transport. It is also probable that Dennis Dominator DD101/East Lancs H45/32F SHE 722S (522) was also present.

This brought together all the new designs of double decker then emerging and it is not an exageration to say that the trials greatly influencenced design and purchases throughout Britain for many years.

As fas as I am aware the only one of this collection to survive is MCW Metrobus TOJ 592S now significantly altered.

With regard to photographs, I have never been a great photographer, so only have a few in my collection bought from others of these. Certainly many pictures though were taken at the time and I would be interested in any that might be available that can be viewed or purchased.

Service 51 was commonly used to trial new designs of bus so I suspect the passage of time has caused 'littlemalc' some confusion. Certainly his recollection of six though suggests the 16xx 'Atlantean' was part of the trial. In addition to the trials taking place with double deckers a Seddon battery bus (XVU 387M) was also in Sheffield at the time so it may be this 'littlemalc' recalls. This was in connection with an electric vehicles conference in late May 1978 (see earlier posting) with battery powered Leyland 'National' with trailer (OTF 354M) also being on loan and SYPTE Crompton Electricar (CWO 516K-1000) seeing use. Incidently, I am not aware of the other Crompton Electricar (CWO 600K-1001) ever being used but stand to be corrected.

Hope all this makes sense and is of interest.

Further reserach suggests that the Leyland 'Atlantean' AN68A/1R/Roe H45/29D involved was VET 608S (1608).

[Guest jimmy75]

Further reserach suggests that the Leyland 'Atlantean' AN68A/1R/Roe H45/29D involved was VET 608S (1608).

Heres some links to pics of the buses ontrail at the time

nhg 732p leyland titan

toj 592s mac metrobus

she 722s dennis dommantor

all five together

merc artic on trial

a china motor bus alisa

[Peter Hall]

Some interesting pictures especially of the mercedes-benz bendy. I have commented about some below. First though, can anyone explain, sorry I'm not fully literate regarding internet picture sites, whether it is possible to obtain prints of any of these pictures. I did obtain railway pictures a couple of years ago using fotopic I think it was but then that vanished before I had searched it for bus pictures. I might be a bit old fashioned but do like a traditional photograph in an album and having dusted down my SYPTE era archives I am attempting to fill a few picture gaps.

Heres some links to pics of the buses ontrail at the time

nhg 732p leyland titan http://flic.kr/p/c9RxRu

toj 592s mac metrobus http://flic.kr/p/c9Rtbo

I have tried to put examples of SYPTE demonstrators (excluding bendis) that I have discovered in http://www.flickr.com/photos/66153920@N03/galleries/72157629872445087/ and it now includes these.

she 722s dennis dommantor http://flic.kr/p/cjmc85

all five together

http://flic.kr/p/agrXsR

This picture of the 'Famous Five' does keep popping up and was clearly taken by a professional photographer. Another I have seen shows the line up with NAK 323R, FHG 592S and VET 608S added with various industry representatives stood in front. It is presumed many others were taken at the same time. Has anyone any knowledge of where the originals might be archived or available to purchase.

merc artic on trial

http://flic.kr/p/aerMQL

I have added this to my SPTE bendis gallery http://www.flickr.com/photos/66153920@N03/galleries/72157629482954848/ This is the first picture I can ever recall seeing of the Mercedes-Benz bendi and even more interesting as it is on the public highway and appears to be causing some mayhem!

a china motor bus alisa

http://flic.kr/p/adhyNt

http://flic.kr/p/aauyTk

[Guest jimmy75]

Have you tired ebay for pictures as there always loads of old pictures of sypte buses for sale.Also you could try sytm as in there shop they do have quite a few trays of pics for sale.

Heres whats on sale at the mo

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=south+yorkshire+pte&_frs=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m359

[Peter Hall]

On 05/06/2009 at 14:02, Waterside Echo said:

Anyone got any early photos of these demonstrators in Sheffield ? W/E.

Hopefully I'll be able to add more about the 'Leyland National' demonstratos in Sheffield once more record checking has taken place.  Prior though to the deivery of the first four to SYPTE in April 1974 (1-4 YWJ 101-104M)  which had been ordered by STD one of the pre-production demonstrators had been trialed in Sheffield.  This was probably FRM 499K which carried a livery similar to that in the publicity picture.  Also, I understand one of the early deliveries to SELNEC and one of the early deliveries to East Midland were also in Sheffield for evaluation by STD.  The demonstrator and East Midland examples were 11 metre examples whilst the SELNEC one borrowed was probably 10 metre.  The early SYPTE deliveries were all of the shortter version, as was  the ex domonstrator (5 later 95 RRM 128M) acquired in December 1975.

Can anyone confirm the identities or have pictures of those trialed by STD c1973?

 

[Peter Hall]

Just realised that there had been an earlier topic about STD Leyland Nationals .  This though doesn't really help much in establishing the identities of those trialed by STD.  EX31 - TXJ 508K is though suggested as the SELNEC example.  Quite possible, this though was an 11 metre example and I'm sure I've either read or been told the SELNEC example was 10 metre. EX38-41 - VVM 601-604L delivered in May 1973 are probable as other than those only Aberdeen had then taken delivery of 10 metre examples.  EX40 was the one displayed at the Transpo 73 exhibition in Manchester that month - anyone on here go?

[Peter Hall]

On 19/08/2021 at 12:38, Peter Hall said:

Just realised that there had been an earlier topic about STD Leyland Nationals .  This though doesn't really help much in establishing the identities of those trialed by STD.  EX31 - TXJ 508K is though suggested as the SELNEC example.  Quite possible, this though was an 11 metre example and I'm sure I've either read or been told the SELNEC example was 10 metre. EX38-41 - VVM 601-604L delivered in May 1973 are probable as other than those only Aberdeen had then taken delivery of 10 metre examples.  EX40 was the one displayed at the Transpo 73 exhibition in Manchester that month - anyone on here go?

Now established that it was indeed FRM 499K that was the Leyland National demonstrater evaluated by Sheffield TD.  The SELNEC example was VVM 602L as suspected and that from East Midland was likely to have been from the OVO 557 - 562L batch.  Pictures of the first two in use in Sheffield have been traced.

I have started a seperate topic covering buses demonstrated to and evaluated by STD.  See Buses demonstrated to STD (prior to SYPTE era) topic.