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Mystery Clock

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I'm digressing slightly but does anyone remember a Mackeson or Guinness clock that used to be situated on top of a building a little way down Fargate. It was above the building that housed Thomas Cook or thereabouts.

HD

I do not remember the Guinness clock HD,

but there is a photo on picturesheffield with Walsh's on the corner of Norfolk Row.

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I do not remember the Guinness clock HD,

but there is a photo on picturesheffield with Walsh's on the corner of Norfolk Row.

Thanks SteveHB for the photo, that's the clock I remember, It's obviously a Guinness Clock. On a non-Sheffield tack, does anyone remember a very intricate clock/automaton which stood in a sort of open-sided booth at Butlins Filey in the early fifties. It was a sort of Heath-Robinson contraption with things that flew about on the hour. I seem to remember toucans and things so it must have advertised Mackerson.

HD

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Thanks SteveHB for the photo, that's the clock I remember, It's obviously a Guinness Clock. On a non-Sheffield tack, does anyone remember a very intricate clock/automaton which stood in a sort of open-sided booth at Butlins Filey in the early fifties. It was a sort of Heath-Robinson contraption with things that flew about on the hour. I seem to remember toucans and things so it must have advertised Mackerson.

HD

Always thought that toucans were associated with Guinness, HD ?

Scroll down for the Roland Emit Festival of Britain Guinness clock(s) that went on display at some seaside resorts.

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Always thought that toucans were associated with Guinness, HD ?

Scroll down for the Roland Emit Festival of Britain Guinness clock(s) that went on display at some seaside resorts.

You're quite right of course, now I can't think what the objects were that were associated with Mackerson.

The Roland Emit clock in the article is certainly the one I saw at Filey in the holiday camp.

What a wonderful thing this Sheffield History is and what wonderful people contribute to it.

I never in this world thought I would see that clock again.

HD

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You're quite right of course, now I can't think what the objects were that were associated with Mackerson.

The Roland Emit clock in the article is certainly the one I saw at Filey in the holiday camp.

What a wonderful thing this Sheffield History is and what wonderful people contribute to it.

I never in this world thought I would see that clock again.

HD

We once had a Guinness Clock in Sheffield (Ideal Homes Exhibition),

thanks to member 'POPPYCHRISTINA' who made mention of of the clock.

But it was our late sh member 'tsavo' who came up with a link .. www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/forums

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<iframe src="http://free.timeanddate.com/clock/i2bbxbj4/szw210/szh210/cf100/hnce1ead6/hwm2/hhl65/hhr5/hml85/hmr10/hsl95" frameborder="0" width="212" height="212"></iframe>

This is only dodgy because its only virtual

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It is three seconds slow compaired to my computer.

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It is three seconds slow compaired to my computer.

Its 3 seconds fast with mine

So I am 6 seconds behind you Steve, Maybe because I'm further west

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Its 3 seconds fast with mine

So I am 6 seconds behind you Steve, Maybe because I'm further west

By 1 minute 30 seconds of longitude angle arc then.

Now if I can get Mr. John Harrison to make me an accurate chronometer (as auctioned by the Trotters in a classic Fools and Horses episode) I would be able to navigate by longitude <_<

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This looks dodgy, but the only mystery is whose clock is it

Radio Sheffield Link

That's dodgy,

it says the clock is stuck on noon.

With a clock display of that traditional style how do they know it isn't stuck on midnight?

It does say it would be right twice a day though.

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Its 3 seconds fast with mine

So I am 6 seconds behind you Steve, Maybe because I'm further west

On one of my other PC's my clock is ten seconds slow,

however this computer is near the TV,

so it could be the magnetic field from the speakers that is affecting the clocks. <_<

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On one of my other PC's my clock is ten seconds slow,

however this computer is near the TV,

so it could be the magnetic field from the speakers that is affecting the clocks. <_<

You can navigate using the Earth's magnetic field as well as by standardised time measurements.

I'm not sure that magnetic fields affect digital timekeeping though, - unless it's an Einstein time relativity thing.

...it could be slow because you are moving much, much, faster than Stuart, at a speed approaching that of light!

Now that is dodgy :huh:

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It is three seconds slow compaired to my computer.

It's 4 seconds fast according to my computer.

In the early days system time was maintained within the BIOS chip and when the operating system booted up it took the time from the BIOS. This could mean that the indicated time could drift substantially from actual time. Nowadays my modem router regularly polls a internet time server and I presume the operating system uses this time.

Incidently I have two radio-controlled digital clocks, one British made one, that gets it's time signal from Anthorn Cumbria (used to be based at Rugby) and the other German made one gets a signal from near Frankfurt Germany.

Despite the fact that the signals are derived from highly accurate atomic clocks, the German one is about 1.5 seconds behind the British one.

Whether this is just down to signal propagation delay or delays in the clock digital processing I'm not sure.

The other thing I've noticed is that the automatic summertime changeover occurs 24 hours later on the German clock, i.e. early hours of Monday morning not Sunday morning.

HD

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All this accuracy but when asked the question "What time is it" we're all still likely

to glance at our watch and say something like "Just gone half past" or "Nearly ten to".

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This clock hung outside William Rowland on Scotland street has been at

12 o'clock for over 35 years . Who said time flies? For this one time has stood

still.

I haven't past there for a couple of years , I wonder if it's still there.

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That's dodgy,

it says the clock is stuck on noon.

With a clock display of that traditional style how do they know it isn't stuck on midnight?

It does say it would be right twice a day though.

It must be stuck on noon 'cos if it was midnight it would be dark wouldn't it?

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All this accuracy but when asked the question "What time is it" we're all still likely

to glance at our watch and say something like "Just gone half past" or "Nearly ten to".

All this talk of clocks reminds me of an account that I read of many years ago.

Apparently an attempt was made to standardise time by constructing a "time-ball" at Greenwich Observatory which still exists today. This was a large sphere that was dropped down a pole on a building at a fixed time (1 pm ) each day. In this way people who could see this ball could set their clocks & watches.

With the coming of railways and telegraph lines a method was sought to enable trains to run to timetables and propagate this signal to remote areas. A series of slave time-balls were established which were connected to Greenwich by telegraph wires ensuring they all dropped at the same time.

This system eventually became obsolete and the Post Office engineers dismantled the system.

One engineer sent to a remote West Country station was surprised to be told that the time ball was still in place and in use. He thought this strange because he knew that the telegraph line had been disconnected for years.

He asked the Station Master how the thing was working and was told that the station staff manually released the ball with a stick at 1 pm each day. When he asked how they knew it was 1 pm he was told that they followed a nearby factory clock.

He enquired at the factory and was told that they set the clock according to the station time-ball !!!

Apparently the factory clock was within a couple of minutes of the correct time.

HD

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It's 4 seconds fast according to my computer.

In the early days system time was maintained within the BIOS chip and when the operating system booted up it took the time from the BIOS. This could mean that the indicated time could drift substantially from actual time. Nowadays my modem router regularly polls a internet time server and I presume the operating system uses this time.

Incidently I have two radio-controlled digital clocks, one British made one, that gets it's time signal from Anthorn Cumbria (used to be based at Rugby) and the other German made one gets a signal from near Frankfurt Germany.

Despite the fact that the signals are derived from highly accurate atomic clocks, the German one is about 1.5 seconds behind the British one.

Whether this is just down to signal propagation delay or delays in the clock digital processing I'm not sure.

The other thing I've noticed is that the automatic summertime changeover occurs 24 hours later on the German clock, i.e. early hours of Monday morning not Sunday morning.

HD

Thanks for that hilldweller,

I too have several radio controlled clocks which seem to act in the way you describe, especially when we switch between BST and GMT.

This had puzzled / annoyed me in the past but I think you may have explained why they are doing what they do.

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Whether this is just down to signal propagation delay or delays in the clock digital processing I'm not sure.

HD

How accurate is the time signal anyway?

Even that is dodgy.

Most people set their clocks by the good old "reliable" BBC time pips.

However with the introduction of DAB and digital broadcasting there is a noticable delay of about 2 seconds processing time on the digital signal.

To hear this, switch on an ordinary analogue radio and simultaneously have either a digitl TV radio channel, DAB radio or even Internet iplayer on the same channel.

In the days of analogue only the time signal was always right.

With digital is the time signal 2 seconds (or thereabouts) slow?

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How accurate is the time signal anyway?

Even that is dodgy.

Most people set their clocks by the good old "reliable" BBC time pips.

However with the introduction of DAB and digital broadcasting there is a noticable delay of about 2 seconds processing time on the digital signal.

To hear this, switch on an ordinary analogue radio and simultaneously have either a digitl TV radio channel, DAB radio or even Internet iplayer on the same channel.

In the days of analogue only the time signal was always right.

With digital is the time signal 2 seconds (or thereabouts) slow?

We have two televisions, one in the sitting room ( I refuse to call it a lounge) and one in the master bedroom. They are both DVB (digital) sets receiving the digital (freeview) signal. If they are both switched on there is a marked time delay between the sound from each, the Samsung upstairs being about 500 mS behind the Panasonic downstairs. This can only be due to the different digital processing delays between the two sets. Of course if one TV is set to analogue the delay is about 2 seconds as you mention.

HD

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We have two televisions, one in the sitting room ( I refuse to call it a lounge) and one in the master bedroom. They are both DVB (digital) sets receiving the digital (freeview) signal. If they are both switched on there is a marked time delay between the sound from each, the Samsung upstairs being about 500 mS behind the Panasonic downstairs. This can only be due to the different digital processing delays between the two sets. Of course if one TV is set to analogue the delay is about 2 seconds as you mention.

HD

This sort of implies that there can be no standard digital time signal as different company processors have differing delays, and there is always is some sort of delay.

So can we only rely on truely accurate timekeeping from an analogue system which is fast becoming obsolete and being phased out?

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This sort of implies that there can be no standard digital time signal as different company processors have differing delays, and there is always is some sort of delay.

So can we only rely on truely accurate timekeeping from an analogue system which is fast becoming obsolete and being phased out?

I don't think there will ever be any uniformity in signal broadcasting irrespective of what sysem is being used. Going back 20 years or more, News at Ten on next door's T V always started at least 2 seconds before ours, they had the same set as ours but their signal came from Emley Moor and ours from Belmont. I started out with a BTH crystal set in my early days then moved on to short wave radio .In the 50s we would place a couple of receivers side by side and the time signals from around the World would always vary. Does anyone remember the late 50s on Saturday mornings, if a VHF radio was placed near to the T V, the Light programe on one and BBC on the other you got a good imitation of stereo sound. Not exactly high tech, but exiting times all the same. W/E.

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This clock hung outside William Rowland on Scotland street has been at

12 o'clock for over 35 years . Who said time flies? For this one time has stood

still.

I haven't past there for a couple of years , I wonder if it's still there.

Still there and still at Dinner time

Unless you go round the other side where you suddenly "time travel" back to about 5 past 9

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I don't think there will ever be any uniformity in signal broadcasting irrespective of what sysem is being used. Going back 20 years or more, News at Ten on next door's T V always started at least 2 seconds before ours, they had the same set as ours but their signal came from Emley Moor and ours from Belmont.

Where we live, Manor Top completely obliterates the very strong signal providing Sheffield with ITV from Emley Moor. Our Aeriel is turned the other way and picks up a much weaker signal from Belmont in Lincolnshire.

As it was not possible for me to receive both signals simultaneously I was not aware of this time delay (my mum lives less than a mile away over the other side of Manor Top and she can only get Emley Moor.)

I can well see that there would be a time delay, but, particularly for News at Ten that delay would create a problem.

At the end of the programme Trevor McDonald says something like "We now go over to our local newsrooms for the regional news and weather"

Emley Moor went to a version of Calendar which, like it's BBC counterpart look North, concentrated almost exclusively on Leeds

Belmont went to a different version of Calendar called Calendar East which had it's BBC counterpart, Look East, both of which concentrated mainly on Lincoln

Neither local variant on either channel never had (or still has) much Sheffield content, - the biggest city in the region!!!

After this the local news and weather teams pass back to News at Ten for Trevors "..and finally" item and the National weather forcast.

A 2 second delay at regional transmitters would certainly create synchronisation problems in doing this.

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