Sheffield Dialect

[DaveH]

Thank you kind sir.

She could identify the difference in dialects from places just a few miles apart.

Sounds a bit like something from the infamous "Yorkshire Ripper Tapes", although they turned out to be a hoax, and the bloke who did the tapes is now also locked up, - presumably for wasting police time and diverting them at a crucial point in an investigation, thereby putting other women at risk of being attacked.

However, thanks to the work of police investigators like this woman the police knew exactly where the man who made the tapes came from due to his accent long before they caught either the Yorkshire Ripper (Peter Sutcliffe) or the hoax tape maker.

[vox]

After many years, on and off, discussing the intricacies of the "Sheffield language" with my cousin, he put a few of our thoughts and observations to paper.

Here's an extract:

South Yorkshire English is quite sophisticated. For example, in ordinary English there is only one pronoun used to address someone - that is "you". In Yorkshire there are two such pronouns - one objective and one subjective. For instance the sentence "I hate you" translates as "I hate thee" but "You hate me" translates as "Thou hates me" - Thee and Thou have different sub-meanings - objective and subjective. Also, unlike in ordinary English the second-person form of the verb has an "s" on the end - in ordinary English only the third-person verb has this.

But in the Sheffield dialect, The "th" in "thou" and "thee" is pronounced "d" so thee becomes "dee". But this is only when it is emphasised. "What is the matter with you?" with emphasis on the "you" is "Wotsupwidee?" but if there is no emphasis, the "dee" becomes "di" as in "Wotsupwidi?'

The ou in "thou" is also differently pronounced in Sheffield - - it is pronounced "a" so thou becomes "da"- as in "Da can't do Owt can da" i.e. "You can't do anything, can you". But if there is emphasis on the word "Da" (or you) it becomes "daa" as in "Daa can't do Owt can da" (the double "a" sound is not pronounced "ah" as in "Ah - how nice" but as an elongated single letter "a" as it sounds in "cat" - i.e. aaa.

Similarly the derivative possessive adjectives from thee and thou are "thy" and "thine". In Sheffield these become "di" and "dine" so "di" can sometimes mean "you" and sometimes mean "your" - but never yours, which translates as "dine". But "di" is also pronounced "daa" in some circumstances. When it is not being emphasised, it is pronounced "di" - "go and tell di mother" but when it is being emphasised i.e. that he mother in question is the mother of the person being addressed rather than someone else's, it would be pronounced "Go and tell daa mother". So "Daa" has two meanings - you or your, depending on the usage and grammar.
(Daa can't 'ave it. You can't have it) or
That's daa dog. - That's your dog)

[vox]

Another complex usage observation is:

The soft "D" substitute for "Th", from which is derived our (I like to think affectionate) nickname of "Dee Daas" is also quite complexly used.

For instance it is never used in the middle or end of a word eg bother or cloth, only at the beginning eg. "That one" becomes dat'n

and "this one" becomes dis'n and "there" becomes dier.

However it is not used to begin words such as "the", "thing", "think" etc which all retain their "th" sound.

[History dude]

I have found that a lot of the Sheffield dialect is simply words kept from earlier forms of English, often said in the way it was originally spelled. For example the word "waken" as in the saying in Sheffield isn't it time thy waken up yet. Now in old English that had not yet developed into "wake up", so it used the word "waccan". With the spelling altered you get the same word as the Sheffield word even down to it's meaning.

Much of what Vox quotes is the same as the above, with just the altered spelling, which was not fixed by a dictionary. So most of the "thee and thoughs" come from Old English or Middle English or other forms. Often with bits of Old Norse chucked in.

I remember getting a wack on the ear from my teacher for spelling Water wrong. In fact I had spelled it correct, just the Old English form!

By the way in Vox's piece it should be "Mudther" not "mother". Again more Old English.

[DaveH]

After many years, on and off, discussing the intricacies of the "Sheffield language" with my cousin, he put a few of our thoughts and observations to paper.

Here's an extract:

South Yorkshire English is quite sophisticated. For example, in ordinary English there is only one pronoun used to address someone - that is "you". In Yorkshire there are two such pronouns - one objective and one subjective. For instance the sentence "I hate you" translates as "I hate thee" but "You hate me" translates as "Thou hates me" - Thee and Thou have different sub-meanings - objective and subjective. Also, unlike in ordinary English the second-person form of the verb has an "s" on the end - in ordinary English only the third-person verb has this.

But in the Sheffield dialect, The "th" in "thou" and "thee" is pronounced "d" so thee becomes "dee". But this is only when it is emphasised. "What is the matter with you?" with emphasis on the "you" is "Wotsupwidee?" but if there is no emphasis, the "dee" becomes "di" as in "Wotsupwidi?'

The ou in "thou" is also differently pronounced in Sheffield - - it is pronounced "a" so thou becomes "da"- as in "Da can't do Owt can da" i.e. "You can't do anything, can you". But if there is emphasis on the word "Da" (or you) it becomes "daa" as in "Daa can't do Owt can da" (the double "a" sound is not pronounced "ah" as in "Ah - how nice" but as an elongated single letter "a" as it sounds in "cat" - i.e. aaa.

Similarly the derivative possessive adjectives from thee and thou are "thy" and "thine". In Sheffield these become "di" and "dine" so "di" can sometimes mean "you" and sometimes mean "your" - but never yours, which translates as "dine". But "di" is also pronounced "daa" in some circumstances. When it is not being emphasised, it is pronounced "di" - "go and tell di mother" but when it is being emphasised i.e. that he mother in question is the mother of the person being addressed rather than someone else's, it would be pronounced "Go and tell daa mother". So "Daa" has two meanings - you or your, depending on the usage and grammar.

(Daa can't 'ave it. You can't have it) or

That's daa dog. - That's your dog)

As I have previously awarded vox a degree in language and dialect for his earlier studies I think he is now going for a doctorate in it. Brilliant, well researched and thought out educational post. A great thesis for your title Dr. Vox M.A. B.Lang. D.Lang.

[Edmund]

I'm not sure how much the dialect has changed over the years. Here's an extract from Abel Bywater's 1839 book "Sheffield Dialect". A lot of it reads to me like a mixture of Geordie and Black Country ("Oi'll give it foive"). Writing that I've seen in old dialect from Rossendale in Lancashire looks more like the Sheffield way of speaking that I know. The full book is here but the writing in dialect is hard work: Sheffield Dialect

GUIDE—Wa, then, cum up heah, an yo’st see sum proime ans. Nobbut luk ya, theahs a saw foive or six foot rahnd. That saw al cut a foreteen foot deal in a minnit. Bless yer sowl, man, it ad saw a world e two if it were wood. Nah, then, yo’st look at sum little toina ans. See yah, heeah’s won heeah abaht a inch-an-a-hofe across. Nah, yo seen, thease is to saw oivry an booan, an horn, an pearl, and sich loik, and varra yuseful tooils they are, anole,bur o avver, we mun gooa or else we’st be ta
late fo’t suppa.

Reminds me of the time I went in the York Hotel at Broomhill for a sandwich at dinnertime. It was very quiet and there was no-one behind the bar - and one of the customers suggested I ought to shout someone. I shouted and it came out a very loud and sounding like a bollocking: " NAAARDEN!" - oops, what I really meant was "Excuse me, please!"

[lysander]

Language, like all living things develops. Some words fall into disuse whilst others are introduced and become common currency. Of course, dialect is dying out as modern communications take over....a few years ago "Estuary English" was the lingua franca for very many young people....courtesy of TV.... Living in North Derbyshire, for a few years , I was always referred to as a "Dee Daa"( narthen dee ars daa?) and I was always amazed how the locals could tell whether a person came from Eckington or Renishaw...a matter of a mile or so. Of course, Grammar School with its admonitions to speak "Queen's English", encouraged many of my generation to lose a lot of our dialect...but I still enjoy annoying my Wife by speaking a few words...which leaves her nonplussed...she being a Canadian!

[DaveH]

Language, like all living things develops. Some words fall into disuse whilst others are introduced and become common currency. Of course, dialect is dying out as modern communications take over....a few years ago "Estuary English" was the lingua franca for very many young people....courtesy of TV.... Living in North Derbyshire, for a few years , I was always referred to as a "Dee Daa"( narthen dee ars daa?) and I was always amazed how the locals could tell whether a person came from Eckington or Renishaw...a matter of a mile or so. Of course, Grammar School with its admonitions to speak "Queen's English", encouraged many of my generation to lose a lot of our dialect...but I still enjoy annoying my Wife by speaking a few words...which leaves her nonplussed...she being a Canadian!

About 20 years ago I taught 2 brothers who had moved into the catchment area of the school I worked at in Derbyshire. They had come from Barnsley and spoke with very strong Barnsley / Yorkshire accents and so stood out from other kids every time they spoke. When they first moved here one of them was 8 and the other was 12. Within a year or so, the younger one lost his accent and spoke like everyone else in the area, but the older one never lost his Barnsley language at all. I concluded from this that unless you alter your language before the age of about 10 then you are stuck with it. It is also apparent from this that most of the language we use we get from our parents, not from English lessons at school.

[lysander]

My parents and Grandparents, with whom we all lived for many years ,used Sheffield dialect...as did I, until the age of 11. At Grammar School I quickly learned that a swift rap across the knuckles.. with a hard ruler... was sufficient encouragement to modify my language to what I am told is known as "Educated Yorkshire".! In my case lessons, contrary to your experience, certainly had the desired effect!

[vox]

Growing up at Hackenthorpe in the 50's, an eclectic mix of dialect could be found. It was quite normal to hear words pronounced in 2 or 3 different ways (all of which were considered quite normal, and didn't really raise a thought) This, one would assume, was due to the melting pot effect of moving to a brand new estate (officially in Derbyshire at the time) where people came from many different areas..

Coat, for example could be pronounced "Cote", "Cooat", "Coyet". or even a more Barnsley like "Coit". (none of which are easy to illustrate without being familiar with phonetics, which unfortunately I'm not) and all, of course, with the obligatory glottal stop at the end.

[DaveH]

My parents and Grandparents, with whom we all lived for many years ,used Sheffield dialect...as did I, until the age of 11. At Grammar School I quickly learned that a swift rap across the knuckles.. with a hard ruler... was sufficient encouragement to modify my language to what I am told is known as "Educated Yorkshire".! In my case lessons, contrary to your experience, certainly had the desired effect!

I suppose you can be forced to change, - but I bet you occasionally lapse back, I do, and sometimes without realising I am doing it.

[DaveH]

Growing up at Hackenthorpe in the 50's, an eclectic mix of dialect could be found. It was quite normal to hear words pronounced in 2 or 3 different ways (all of which were considered quite normal, and didn't really raise a thought) This, one would assume, was due to the melting pot effect of moving to a brand new estate (officially in Derbyshire at the time) where people came from many different areas..

Coat, for example could be pronounced "Cote", "Cooat", "Coyet". or even a more Barnsley like "Coit". (none of which are easy to illustrate without being familiar with phonetics, which unfortunately I'm not) and all, of course, with the obligatory glottal stop at the end.

Must admit I am a Cooat man myself. I frequently have to point out to people from Barnsley and further north in Yorkshire that Coit is actually a hoop or ring used in a game in which these items are thrown in an attempt to get them onto hooks to score points. If someone says to me "get thi coit" I assume they are challenging me to a game rather than to wear warm clothing against the weather.

[lysander]

Dave, I lapse back occasionally, especially when in the company of other "speakers"...but I do feel I hear real dialect much less often than I did and hardly ever with young people...Could be I now live a"sheltered" life"!

[DaveH]

Dave, I lapse back occasionally, especially when in the company of other "speakers"...but I do feel I hear real dialect much less often than I did and hardly ever with young people...Could be I now live a"sheltered" life"!

Could it be that you don't hear it as much these days that due to people travelling more and communicating now on a global scale that we are now not as isolated and have many more linguistic influences.

[lysander]

There are certainly more influences...including the spoken media...and definitely less isolation .

In another life I spent some time as a community worker, mainly with young Rastafarian's whose ability to jump in and out of "patois", depending with whom they were conversing ,was amazing, In the UK this was usually done to emphasise their separateness...similar people from a similar background.... I have heard of our local dialects being used in a similar manner to patois.

Incidentally, I was told at school that we didn't have a dialect..just the "lazy and idle use of slang".

[DaveH]

Incidentally, I was told at school that we didn't have a dialect..just the "lazy and idle use of slang".

I think you have just defined "American English" there.

[lysander]

I doubt the Americans would agree and some might even point out that their use of the language is just as valid as is ours!

[DaveH]

I doubt the Americans would agree and some might even point out that their use of the language is just as valid as is ours!

Yes it is just as valid as English has many variations, but their version (with its quirky words and incorrect spellings) is NOT a worldwide replacement for "proper" English (or as they call it, "English English" (our version of the language, like their New York, is so good they named it twice!)

[tozzin]

I remember the people in the fifties so is probably been used for years before then, but they never said Sheffield, it was always called SHEFFELD.

[lysander]

Many "Americanisms" are actually olde(er) English...taken over the Atlantic by settlers and remaining pretty much unchanged...such as "Fall" when modern English English now uses Autumn. Some regional American dialects are also traceable back to where the majority of the settlers came from...with distinct variations arising from settlements from the West Country and East Anglia.

[DaveH]

Many "Americanisms" are actually olde(er) English...taken over the Atlantic by settlers and remaining pretty much unchanged...such as "Fall" when modern English English now uses Autumn. Some regional American dialects are also traceable back to where the majority of the settlers came from...with distinct variations arising from settlements from the West Country and East Anglia.

Just because a TAP is a bit stiff there is no need to call it a "force it" (which they pronounce FAWCETT.

[lysander]

"Faucet" is derived from Middle English use of the Old French "fausset"

[DaveH]

"Faucet" is derived from Middle English use of the Old French "fausset"

Yes, but its down to accent and dialect again.

It sounds different when pronounced as a French "fausset", then when prounced "faw sit" (force it) as the Americans do

Hence my comment about their use of language not being wrong but being "quirky" for want of a better description.

[lysander]

I agree with you.I spend a part of every year across the "pond" in Canada ,often visiting relatives in a tiny place called...Brightside. Over there, my "standard accent" is thought of as , well, I have heard it described as "romantic"...or even, "I can listen to you all day"..whereas, when I lapse into dialect, it is either totally incomprehensible or considered as "quaint". Dialect is only of use when it is understood by those to whom you are intending to communicate.

We have all been bombarded with trans-Atlantic English ( I accept that the Canadian variety is slightly different) for all of our lives, and almost none of us have a problem understanding ,....although a few words and expressions may grate on the ears. That's the point. We understand their regional accents whereas, because of a lack of exposure, they have problems with our dialect...as, indeed, do other English, English speakers.