Jump to content

Painting of Samuel Hague in Somme Barracks?


Guest Gillb

Recommended Posts

Hi all

Can anyone help with this - though I think its a long shot! My gg grandfather Samuel Hague (born c 1860) was an Old Contemptible and my mum recalls that there was a painting of him hung in the Somme Barracks on Glossop Rd. So far I dont know anything about his service record and dont seem to be able to find it unless I go to TNA in London. We have one photo where he has one stripe but nothing to indicate which regiment - he was Sheffield 'born and bred'.

Can anyone help with the whereabouts of this painting - is it still there, why was the painting there or anything else that would be useful.

Many thanks for any advice or thoughts,

Gill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi all

Can anyone help with this - though I think its a long shot! My gg grandfather Samuel Hague (born c 1860) was an Old Contemptible and my mum recalls that there was a painting of him hung in the Somme Barracks on Glossop Rd. So far I dont know anything about his service record and dont seem to be able to find it unless I go to TNA in London. We have one photo where he has one stripe but nothing to indicate which regiment - he was Sheffield 'born and bred'.

Can anyone help with the whereabouts of this painting - is it still there, why was the painting there or anything else that would be useful.

Many thanks for any advice or thoughts,

Gill

Hi Gill, it would be nice to see the photo of Samuel Hague,

any chance of you posting it up, for others to see?

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Steve

I dont have that photo with me but Ive asked my father to scan it and send it to me and will upload it then. Interestingly amongst my 'stuff' Ive found a postcard of 'The York and Lancaster Regiment' which my father thought was probably the correct one.

Gill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi all

Can anyone help with this - though I think its a long shot! My gg grandfather Samuel Hague (born c 1860) was an Old Contemptible and my mum recalls that there was a painting of him hung in the Somme Barracks on Glossop Rd. So far I dont know anything about his service record and dont seem to be able to find it unless I go to TNA in London. We have one photo where he has one stripe but nothing to indicate which regiment - he was Sheffield 'born and bred'.

Can anyone help with the whereabouts of this painting - is it still there, why was the painting there or anything else that would be useful.

Many thanks for any advice or thoughts,

Gill

Thoughts :

Where was he born in Sheffield ? - District, Street etc ?

Do you know your gg grandmothers maiden name or an approximate date of marriage ? - Obvious reasons for asking.

What was your gg grandfathers trade ? - might help with Census searching.

Do you know of any brothers/sisters he had ?

We are mainly "Old" here, mostly "Comtemptible" but we like to try hard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thoughts :

Where was he born in Sheffield ? - District, Street etc ?

Do you know your gg grandmothers maiden name or an approximate date of marriage ? - Obvious reasons for asking.

What was your gg grandfathers trade ? - might help with Census searching.

Do you know of any brothers/sisters he had ?

We are mainly "Old" here, mostly "Comtemptible" but we like to try hard.

Hi RichardB - thanks for replying. I do have quite a bit of info from the census etc but its particularly about his military record that I'd love to hear about and the painting that I only found out about today! He was married to Mary Ann (Kinder) and lived in the Ecclesall Bierlow area and had a son also called Samuel - happy to post more if anyone is interested but need to go to bed now!!

Gill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The current users of the Somme Barracks are the Sheffield University Officer Training Corps. There is some info on

this page, including an email address. You could try asking them if they know anything about the painting.

Hugh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi all

Can anyone help with this - though I think its a long shot! My gg grandfather Samuel Hague (born c 1860) was an Old Contemptible and my mum recalls that there was a painting of him hung in the Somme Barracks on Glossop Rd. So far I dont know anything about his service record and dont seem to be able to find it unless I go to TNA in London. We have one photo where he has one stripe but nothing to indicate which regiment - he was Sheffield 'born and bred'.

Can anyone help with the whereabouts of this painting - is it still there, why was the painting there or anything else that would be useful.

Many thanks for any advice or thoughts,

Gill

Hi Gill,

I may be barking up the wrong tree - but this sounds like your old boy? I hope it is as he sounds a great character!!

He was a 2nd Corporal in the West York Royal Engineer Volunteer Cops. Does that sound right?

The 1st West Riding of Yorkshire Engineer Volunteers was formed in 1860. They changed their name to 1st West York Engineer Volunteers in 1872 and West York Royal Engineers in 1897.

In 1900 a number of the Engineers sailed for South Africa and the Boer War & spent most of their time repairing bridges in Natal and the Southern Transvaal.

In 1906 A decision was taken to rebuild their HQ fronting onto Glossop Road and Gell Street. These new HQs were opened on 7th December 1907.

In 1908 all volunteer forces became part of the new territorial force. The Corps were now the West Riding Divisional Royal Engineers TF.

As you can see from the scan Samuel Hague turned up in the Sheffield Volunteer Defence Corps during the First World War. When war broke out a decision was taken to drill & train all men over 38 these men numbering some 4000 by 1915 were formed into the Sheffield Volunteer Defence Corps later being absorbed into the York & Lancaster Regiment !

I think there are lots of material and photos belonging to the Y&L Regiment etc at Clifton Park Regimental Museum in Rotherham.

best wishes!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

i was in Somme barracks yesterday looking for Great War stuff, and did ask if the picture existed and was told no. I was given a quick tour round and didn't see anything myself. I was invited back later this week with my camera so if i do spot Samuel lurking anywhere i'll snap him!

Dean.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is he on here do you think? - this is from 1891 - from Picture Sheffield. Anyone see a Corporal's stripe?

Standing on the right is Captain ES Tozer Commanding Officer

Officers of the First West Yorkshire Royal Engineers (Volunteers), 1891

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Gill,

I may be barking up the wrong tree - but this sounds like your old boy? I hope it is as he sounds a great character!!

Dunsbyowl - you are a star! Thank you so much - this certainly does sound like him. He lived a long life from about 1861 (not found his birth record yet) to about 1940 - so my mum remembers him and says she got the impression he had served for a long time. There was a photo of him in the Star (mum says it was the Star) mentioning that he was an Old Contemptible, when he died - Ive only just been told about this so will be at the Local studies Library trying to find it asap!

Thanks ever so much for your trouble - I really do appreciate it. I will post a picture of him when I can and the article from The Star when I find it.

Gill

ps Please could you give me the reference of this info so I can have a look at it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is he on here do you think? - this is from 1891 - from Picture Sheffield. Anyone see a Corporal's stripe?

Standing on the right is Captain ES Tozer Commanding Officer

Officers of the First West Yorkshire Royal Engineers (Volunteers), 1891

Hi again Dunsbyowl - I cant see him on the picture but the photos Ive seen have mostly been when he was older so couldnt tell anyway!

Thanks though,

Gill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

i was in Somme barracks yesterday looking for Great War stuff, and did ask if the picture existed and was told no. I was given a quick tour round and didn't see anything myself. I was invited back later this week with my camera so if i do spot Samuel lurking anywhere i'll snap him!

Dean.

Hi Dean, thank you so much for asking about this, very much appreciated! My mum remembers the picture which she says must have been a painting, it was quite large and of him in uniform with a hat that she describes as being like an officers cap. If you do spot do please take a pic and post it.

Thanks so much to everyone who has responded to my post - its all really appreciated - i will be visiting the Rotherham museum to see what I can find.

Any more thoughts and ideas will be appreciated too.

Just to say I think this site is great - I couldnt imagine there being so many kind responses. thanks again, I will let you all know how i get on.

Gill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gill

There is a Samuel Hague birth registered March 1861 in Ecclesall Bierlow ( not Sheffield at that point)

on the 1881 Census there is a Samuel Hague 20 years old a steel maker living with his father, Samuel an earthenware dealer.

They were living at 22 New Thomas Street Eccleshall

Mary Ann Kinder - a file cutter was 19 living with her parents John & Lydia (both file cutters) and were living at at BK of 28 New Thomas Street

on the basis acorns don't fall far from the oak there's a good chance this is them.

Mary Ann & Samual's marriage was registered in December 1881.

I sure Richard B or someone else can find out a lot more from there!

best wishes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gill

There is a Samuel Hague birth registered March 1861 in Ecclesall Bierlow ( not Sheffield at that point)

on the 1881 Census there is a Samuel Hague 20 years old a steel maker living with his father, Samuel an earthenware dealer.

They were living at 22 New Thomas Street Eccleshall

Mary Ann Kinder - a file cutter was 19 living with her parents John & Lydia (both file cutters) and were living at at BK of 28 New Thomas Street

on the basis acorns don't fall far from the oak there's a good chance this is them.

Mary Ann & Samual's marriage was registered in December 1881.

I sure Richard B or someone else can find out a lot more from there!

best wishes

Hi dunsbyowl - yes this is them - I havent got all of this but I have the New Thomas st address, in fact just now Im searching Ancestry and have got 1901 back to 1861 - just tonight so Im doing well! I hadnt got the marriage or the address of Mary Ann Kinder though so cheers for that.

Cant find a birth for Samuel born c1834 or parents marriage - but it keeps me out of trouble looking!!

Thanks very much.

Going back to Samuel of the painting - my uncle thinks there could be a connection with Hague Lane possibly being named for him, becoming Hague Row in the flats - but it could just be a story and Im betting someone around here will know the answer to that one! Sounds like he was quite well known and well off. Apparently he helped in some way to get a band together, for something like boy's brigade, for St Mary's church.

Thanks again for help and interest,

Gill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HI Gillb, l seem to recall a well known high ranking officer with the name Hague, attached to the recruiting service in the early yrs of the war, this may be some connection, Cheers Skeets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ps Please could you give me the reference of this info so I can have a look at it.

Gill the information was from the following,

This published in 1993 possibly by the City Libraries its ISBN no is 09519351 1 9 - I bought it in Hartley Seed's Bookshop - I can't even remember where that was - West Street ?. I doubt it went to a second edition! I'm sure a copy would be in the Local Study Library in the Cental Library.

best wishes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a Samuel Hague birth registered March 1861 in Ecclesall Bierlow (not Sheffield at that point)

I beg to differ lol

Ecclesall Bierlow, the ancient township, was certainly part of Sheffield Parish, well before the 19th century. It was part of the Borough created in 1843.

Ecclesall Bierlow, the Registration District (and Poor Law Union), covered the western part of the town (the Townships of Nether Hallam, Upper Hallam, Ecclesall Bierlow and also some Derbyshire parishes.)

Hugh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I beg to differ lol

Ecclesall Bierlow, the ancient township, was certainly part of Sheffield Parish, well before the 19th century. It was part of the Borough created in 1843.

Ecclesall Bierlow, the Registration District (and Poor Law Union), covered the western part of the town (the Townships of Nether Hallam, Upper Hallam, Ecclesall Bierlow and also some Derbyshire parishes.)

Hugh

Hugh - you are welcome to differ and you of course are correct. What I meant to say was that if you search on the FreeBMD website the entries for Ecclesall are separate from Sheffield and if our are looking for BMDs in Eccelsall that is what you should search under not Sheffield ! but I was too lazy. This is how wars start I know ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gill the information was from the following,

This published in 1993 possibly by the City Libraries its ISBN no is 09519351 1 9 - I bought it in Hartley Seed's Bookshop - I can't even remember where that was - West Street ?. I doubt it went to a second edition! I'm sure a copy would be in the Local Study Library in the Cental Library.

Thanks very much again Dunsbyowl - you've been so helpful and its much appreciated, (as is everyone's help)

Gill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Gill

A bit negative this one but apparently Hague Lane was named after William Hague, a mason, beerhouse owner, shopkeeper and property owner, ( a busy lad!), who died in 1894.

He owned the Oxford Hotel, 4 shops and 14 cottages in the area. (From Peter Harvey's 'Street Names of Sheffield)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Gill

A bit negative this one but apparently Hague Lane was named after William Hague, a mason, beerhouse owner, shopkeeper and property owner, ( a busy lad!), who died in 1894.

He owned the Oxford Hotel, 4 shops and 14 cottages in the area. (From Peter Harvey's 'Street Names of Sheffield)

Hi Bayleaf - that's a positive negative as I know the story isnt true! Thanks very much for this. Interesting that Ive also just found out that some of the Hague's were in some way related to Pubs - not quite sure how, although apparently my grandad was born in one!

Thanks for letting me know this,

Gill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A useful contact for anyone searching for information about Yorks & Lancaster regiment (found through information received here, thanks everyone!) is that the Regimental museum in Rotherham have a contact email for information about records etc - karl.noble@rotherham.gov.uk - there is a 6 to 12 week wait as enquiries are dealt with in order of receipt.

Hope that's useful to someone else,

Gill

PS Bayleaf - when I said "that's a positive negative as I know the story isnt true!" - I meant to say that at least Now I know its not true - and my mum hadnt heard this story either so probably a case of chinese (family) whispers!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<br />Hi Dean, thank you so much for asking about this, very much appreciated! My mum remembers the picture which she says must have been a painting, it was quite large and of him in uniform with a hat that she describes as being like an officers cap. If you do spot do please take a pic and post it. <br /><br />Thanks so much to everyone who has responded to my post - its all really appreciated - i will be visiting the Rotherham museum to see what I can find.<br /><br />Any more thoughts and ideas will be appreciated too.<br /><br />Just to say I think this site is great - I couldnt imagine there being so many kind responses. thanks again, I will let you all know how i get on.<br />Gill<br />
&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br /><br />HI Gillb l recall many years ago seeing a poster in various places of an officer with the name Haig or hague pointing at you saying YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU, IT was some sort of recruiting advertisement. skeets
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...