Fitzalan Square

[DaveJC]

11 hours ago, tozzin said:

This photo is bereft of alcoholics, druggies and “ homeless” I use that term very loosely, I never ever saw any street drinkers etc in the fifties or sixties until it became fashionable when it was realised that you could earn more money begging than working. I much prefer the old square when it had the stone shelters for tram passengers, the only people you would see would be mainly men chatting and waiting for the Bell or the Elephant to open, you had to live it to appreciate just what I lived through.

I recall the hour prior to the city centre ‘waking up’, where you couldn’t walk a couple of yards without someone passing the time of day with you, then there was Pond Street Norah, who had a vocabulary that would make a sailor blush, who was the guy in the black and stripes and Homburg hat, was it the Duke of Darnall?

John, the Town Hall bobby controlled his beat with vigour, even superior officers were very deferential when addressing him, I well recall asking his advice when I mentioned the new phenomena of shop lifting to him, I had a fairly senior position with a major retail chain that was losing close to the amount it was selling, quick as a flash John replied “Let the beat bobbies have the use of your tea rooms Dave”, job done the look on the suspects faces when a couple of uniformed bobbies walked though the shops was a picture.

True there was more litter/wastage in those days as we hadn’t quite cracked the new ‘throw away’ society, thing like cardboard and othe packaging was left outside shops with no actual places to store it, however the council soon got it’s act together, along with the street sweepers, who did a cracking job.

I apologise for having hands on experience of the city centre in the 1960’s, it obviously doesn’t mirror some folk’s imaginings.

 

 

[makapaka]

14 minutes ago, DaveJC said:

I recall the hour prior to the city centre ‘waking up’, where you couldn’t walk a couple of yards without someone passing the time of day with you, then there was Pond Street Norah, who had a vocabulary that would make a sailor blush, who was the guy in the black and stripes and Homburg hat, was it the Duke of Darnall?

John, the Town Hall bobby controlled his beat with vigour, even superior officers were very deferential when addressing him, I well recall asking his advice when I mentioned the new phenomena of shop lifting to him, I had a fairly senior position with a major retail chain that was losing close to the amount it was selling, quick as a flash John replied “Let the beat bobbies have the use of your tea rooms Dave”, job done the look on the suspects faces when a couple of uniformed bobbies walked though the shops was a picture.

True there was more litter/wastage in those days as we hadn’t quite cracked the new ‘throw away’ society, thing like cardboard and othe packaging was left outside shops with no actual places to store it, however the council soon got it’s act together, along with the street sweepers, who did a cracking job.

I apologise for having hands on experience of the city centre in the 1960’s, it obviously doesn’t mirror some folk’s imaginings.

 

 

Im sure there are lots of differences between the 60s and present day - some which will no doubt be losses to society in the present day and some which will no doubt improvements to what life was like in the 60s.

the discussion was more about the design of the square though - not the people in it - and no ones demonstrated yet that the square was visually or practically better then - in fact all the images suggest that the current incarnation is a big improvement.

[tozzin]

16 minutes ago, DaveJC said:

I recall the hour prior to the city centre ‘waking up’, where you couldn’t walk a couple of yards without someone passing the time of day with you, then there was Pond Street Norah, who had a vocabulary that would make a sailor blush, who was the guy in the black and stripes and Homburg hat, was it the Duke of Darnall?

John, the Town Hall bobby controlled his beat with vigour, even superior officers were very deferential when addressing him, I well recall asking his advice when I mentioned the new phenomena of shop lifting to him, I had a fairly senior position with a major retail chain that was losing close to the amount it was selling, quick as a flash John replied “Let the beat bobbies have the use of your tea rooms Dave”, job done the look on the suspects faces when a couple of uniformed bobbies walked though the shops was a picture.

True there was more litter/wastage in those days as we hadn’t quite cracked the new ‘throw away’ society, thing like cardboard and othe packaging was left outside shops with no actual places to store it, however the council soon got it’s act together, along with the street sweepers, who did a cracking job.

I apologise for having hands on experience of the city centre in the 1960’s, it obviously doesn’t mirror some folk’s imaginings.

 

 

I firmly believe that the upsurge in litter and dumping was caused by the building of new homes without fireplaces and in older houses electric and gas fires being fitted which left thousands of people with nowhere to burn rubbish, my dad used to "bank" our fire up at night with potato peelings so by morning the fire was still in and the house was warm. Not everybody could afford to but loads of coal so vegetable bits, old shoes etc were saved for the fire, we would never have thought to drop any litter outside unlike todays litterers.

[tozzin]

3 minutes ago, makapaka said:

Im sure there are lots of differences between the 60s and present day - some which will no doubt be losses to society in the present day and some which will no doubt improvements to what life was like in the 60s.

the discussion was more about the design of the square though - not the people in it - and no ones demonstrated yet that the square was visually or practically better then - in fact all the images suggest that the current incarnation is a big improvement.

It was about the actual SQUARE but it doesn't have life without the people who used it.

[Sheffield History]

 

[Sheffield History]

Fitzalan Square, Sheffield City Centre

[calibrator]

On 08/02/2008 at 05:25, mickjj said:

I used to queue to get a taxi in the square but never a tank

 

Thought you might like to see the same tank taken from further away. This is selling war bonds in 1916/17. I particularly like the slogan on the Electra.

[tozzin]

[SteveHB]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/266321276647

[Sheffield History]

[Lysanderix]

The square looks splendid….just a pity, like much of the rest of our City centre ,it is devoid of people, footfall, call it what you want…but life has changed with ……working from home,Meadowhell,  Pistol Creeks, internet shopping ,takeaways and cheap supermarket booze.

[Hopman]

I don't know how much was spent doing it up, but to my mind they should have included a tin of black paint to pick out the lettering  below the panels under the statue of Edward VII.

It was King George V who asked for this statue to be a standing figure, rather than on horseback.

[winco1960]

Why did they knock down the Barclays bank building? A very impressive structure.

Nothing that has been built there since can match its grandeur.

One of my favourite areas in the city centre. I used to work at Prestos supermarket overlooking Pond Street.

Used to catch the Number 4 bus from outside the Marples to get home.

Always remember the shoplifters always used to end up in the Marples trying to sell their ill-gotten gains.

[Lysanderix]

The Star reported the upgrade was costing £5.6 million….the majority as a grant from the Local Enterprise Partnership.

[boginspro]

It might look posh to the "greenie" people but now hardly a practical Square for a city centre.

[History dude]

15 hours ago, Lysanderix said:

The Star reported the upgrade was costing £5.6 million….the majority as a grant from the Local Enterprise Partnership.

Building works and improvements always cost more than they actually are worth. It's a way of making lots of red tape and helping building companies business'. Throw in architects and the costs escalate. Having a meeting with one of them, and they charge at least £100 per hour to sit there and argue the costs with you. To them £200 for a thing you could get from B&Q for £30 is worth it!

Most things these days need a grant from somewhere. It used to be EU money.  I wonder how many people have even heard of the "Local Enterprise Partnership"?    

[Lysanderix]

I seem to think  the role of the LEP has now Ben taken over by the Regional Mayor…but not certain.

 

 

[History dude]

It has. It's now called South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority and Local Enterprise Partnership.  

The Chief Executive post is a salary of over £1,000 per day! 

I did a bit of research on the LEP's and they were set up to replace EU funding. However unlike the EU money is not solely targeted at disadvantaged areas.  Which would explain why the Square got £5.6 million. I wouldn't have called Fitzalan Square disadvantaged, before it was done over. 

Seems to me a lot of money just to create a lawn and Flowerbeds! Plus lots of paving slabs! 

A simple costing. You can get a paving slab for around a £10 at Wickes.  So 1 million pounds would get you 10 million slabs. 

[Lysanderix]

And the new tier of local  government is all part of Regional Devolvement of powers…with a touch of “ levelling up” I imagine. It’s all down to politics….so let me say that the new scheme is a million times nicer than the Fitzalan Square  of the 1960s when I started being  a townie in my drinking habits.
The old, smelly downstairs loos attracted a certain a”clientele”…so a quick visit was called for before a dash to catch one of the late trams to Lane Top.

[History dude]

At least there were toilets, now there are none!

Most have taken about £3 million to fill in the hole where the toilets were. Because I can't see how the new square cost £5 million? 

Ah, yes democracy and politics in action🤨

And the Mayor says, "I wonder what we could do with £5.6 million pounds?"

"Fitzalan Square looks a mess, sir. Sheffield University are moaning about it as they have taken over the old Post Office" said the Chief Executive (paid a grand a day) "here's the cost breakdown then:"

£1 million for slabs, steps and curb edges and laying them. £3 million to demolish and fill in the toilets. £500,000 for grass seed. And £500,000 for plants and trees. Plus sundry expenses.

"I'll approve that". Said the Mayor, who was after all elected by the people. 🤑

 

[Lysanderix]

We could start a new topic about public toilets. Being of a certain age and having a litany of age related problems I have to plan my journeys carefully.. I haven’t been in town for ages…..and the last time I was there I had to use the loos in the Cathedral!. Back to topic……perhaps a request under the Freedom of Information Act might get an accurate breakdown of the actual cost?

[boginspro]

On 11/03/2021 at 08:55, tozzin said:

It was about the actual SQUARE but it doesn't have life without the people who used it.

I agree entirely. It was a square that was heavily used because it was functional. A good meeting place with toilets, pubs, picture house, taxies, buses, shops, banks, restaurant, GPO and somewhere to park for a while. And the drunken yobs etc. were not tolerated.

[History dude]

2 hours ago, Lysanderix said:

……perhaps a request under the Freedom of Information Act might get an accurate breakdown of the actual cost?

LEP's do not come under it.

[Lysanderix]

Right! I didn’t know that!

[southside]

Stopped for a coffee and a look around the redesigned Square in 2022. I pointed out to my wife the relief carvings on the White Building depicting the various Sheffield Trades.

It was in 1961 when I first noticed the carvings, while sitting on the wall waiting for the plumber I was apprentice to, arrive, we got to the jobs by bus back then and it was my job to carry his bag of tools around, remember putting the tool bag under the stairs at the back of the bus and being told to sit there and keep your eyes on em, while I go upstairs for a smoke.

Remember catching the football specials back into town from Hillsborough, getting off in Fitzalan Square and running down into Pond Street with my mate swinging his football rattle all the way along the bus shelter on our way to catch the bus home.  " Yes there was a time when Wednesday used to win"