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Old Date Stone


Guest Trefcon

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Guest Trefcon

Hi all,

Anyone know why this is here ?

It is set into a new wall on Bowfield Road, just down from Sheffield Lane Top.

The date is 1691 and the initials S W M.

I have looked at old maps of the area but cant see any old buildings that once stood there, any ideas?

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That IS interesting. I grew up in that area and the only really old buildings I remember were the old Blacksmiths forge on Hatfiled House Lane. On a humerous note , it could be upside down and read "WMS 1691" :P

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Guest Trefcon

i thought about the upside down thing, but looking at the 'M', if it was upside down, it would be a peculiar 'W' with the scroll's at the bottom.

I know there was a horse racing stable at the Lane Top, from there?

i have found a 'Jefferys' map showing a 'Bradfield House/Hall in the vicinity, or could that be Hatfield?

another pic to put it in context with the wall.

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Hi all,

anyone know why this is here?

it is set into a new wall on Bowfield Road, just down from Sheffield Lane Top.

The date is 1691 and the initials S W M.

I have looked at old maps of the area but cant see any old buildings that once stood there, any ideas?

Hi deansgirl

Just a thought could S W M stand for Sheffield Water Main ( i am only guessing ).

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Guest Trefcon

Hi Syrup, as good a guess as any!

I was wondering if the bricklayers building the wall might have found it when digging the footing out and thought to put it in the wall ?

Dean.

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The last tricky one like this didnt Bayleaf ask First Point at the council office. (re: Bollards)

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Guest Trefcon

Bringing this one back to the top.

This map was in my 'things', no idea where i got it, it's definately been hand drawn.

I have the Godfrey maps but they dont seem to extend to the lane top. I have circled a large building that stood where the old peoples houses now stand, the wall with the date stone abuts these. I have also put in roughly where Bowfield Rd is now, and roughly where the date stone is. I cant seem to find a map in 'our' collection that covers Lane Top also, anyone help?

So im thinking that maybe the stone was from this large building, found when they built the wall, and added to it?

Dean.

(apologies for the Heath Robinson map, but it's the best i got!! )

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Hi Dean,

The building circled on you map isn't shown on the 1850s OS map, although a pump and trough are shown nearby.

However it does appear on the 1893 and 1906 OS maps - you can see all of these if you go to

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/indexmappage2.aspx and put Shiregreen into the search box. Use the scale on the left to enlarge the result.

The racing stables were run from Paddock Farm across the road, and the building in question may have been built as additional stabling but that's mere conjecture on my part.

The oldest property in the immediate area is Hatfield House which is believed to be 15th century and probably earlier.

As suggested your best bet is to ask the council about where the stone was found.

It is possible the date stone is from the pump. These field pumps were usually mounted on a stone base next to a stone trough for watering livestock.

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Guest Trefcon

Thanks for that Gramps, much appreciated.

If the building was connected to the racing stables, do we have names of people who lived there to tie in with the initials on the stone?

Failing that where/who do i see at the council that could answer this?

Dean.

Gramps, just noticed on the map you referred to for Shiregreen, that there was a Corn Mill at Sheffield Lane Top, interesting.

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Hmmm, I remember a scout parent telling me about some stones out on Flouch Moor with a similar inscription. There are several of them accross the moor which mark the boundary of this individuals right to hunt that area. Could this be a similar such stone.

I shall ask if they can remember the inscription of the Flouch Moor ones, unless anyone else knows of them.

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Thanks for that Gramps, much appreciated.

If the building was connected to the racing stables, do we have names of people who lived there to tie in with the initials on the stone?

Failing that where/who do i see at the council that could answer this?

Dean.

Gramps, just noticed on the map you referred to for Shiregreen, that there was a Corn Mill at Sheffield Lane Top, interesting.

Hi Dean

In the case of the bollards mentioned earlier, I emailed First Point, the enquiries point at Howden house and they dealt with it.

Peter

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Hi Dean, Peter & Gramps

There are a few photos on Picture Sheffield of the Paddocks but I assume developed during the Victorian/Edwardian period.

http://www.picturesheffield.co.uk/cgi-bin/...jpgh/s09729.jpg

Is there a chance that all that land belonged to the Wilkinson family of Crowder House. They owned the Brush House estate as well as the land in Longley Park and Cliffe House ( a dower house) at Lane Top as well.

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Hi Dean, Peter & Gramps

There are a few photos on Picture Sheffield of the Paddocks but I assume developed during the Victorian/Edwardian period.

http://www.picturesheffield.co.uk/cgi-bin/...jpgh/s09729.jpg

Is there a chance that all that land belonged to the Wilkinson family of Crowder House. They owned the Brush House estate as well as the land in Longley Park and Cliffe House ( a dower house) at Lane Top as well.

Earlier post

http://www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/forums/i...&hl=crowder

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Paddock Farm seems to have been owned (or probably leased) by the Booth family of The Brushes at the turn of the 18th.century. The three Booth boys who joined a cavalry regiment in the Pensinsular War all had horses bred at the Paddocks, and it supplied many of the local gentry with their hunters. Thomas Booth set up a racing stud there after the war and had some success, with one of his horses winning the St. Leger. His sold his interest in the stud in 1841.

The Paddocks continued as a successful stud and training establishment under various owners until the 1920s when the land was taken over for development.

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Guest Trefcon

Thats interesting Gramps, as the date of the hand drawn map is about 1920, so the large buliding was probably pulled down not long after then.

Dean.

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Gramps said:
Paddock Farm seems to have been owned (or probably leased) by the Booth family of The Brushes at the turn of the 18th.century. The three Booth boys who joined a cavalry regiment in the Pensinsular War all had horses bred at the Paddocks, and it supplied many of the local gentry with their hunters. Thomas Booth set up a racing stud there after the war and had some success, with one of his horses winning the St. Leger. His sold his interest in the stud in 1841.

The Paddocks continued as a successful stud and training establishment under various owners until the 1920s when the land was taken over for development.

Gramps is right there. A bit more information :

My book on Shiregreen states that the Lane Top paddocks were established in 1830 by Tom Booth.

There was s large stallion box built for the St Ledger winner Charles XII (which cost £3,000 in 1841 - the horse that is!)

One of the most famous race horses was Kings Messenger that won the Goodwood Cup in 1898 and the Great Metropolitan Stakes in 1899.

Other great race horses included

Adventurer

Pretender

Who can be seen here! ;-)

https://www.picturesheffield.com/s09683

Ragimunde which won the Cesarewitch in 1891.

LAter owners of the Paddocks included Sir Robert Jardine and a Mr Wilson who took over from him and it was he who was forced to sell in 1920.

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Paddock Farm seems to have been owned (or probably leased) by the Booth family of The Brushes at the turn of the 18th.century. The three Booth boys who joined a cavalry regiment in the Pensinsular War all had horses bred at the Paddocks, and it supplied many of the local gentry with their hunters. Thomas Booth set up a racing stud there after the war and had some success, with one of his horses winning the St. Leger. His sold his interest in the stud in 1841.

The Paddocks continued as a successful stud and training establishment under various owners until the 1920s when the land was taken over for development.

The 3 sons who joined the army were William, Charles and Henry. William scandalised the family by leaving his job at a solicitor's office and joining the Scots Greys as a private. His brother Charles, who was an officer, was mortified, lamenting "What if my fellow officers find out"!

The family honour was eventually restored when William was allowed to leave the Scots Greys and bought a commission in the 95th Rifles, though he had to sell his shares in the family business to pay for it. (Thinks; he must have known his fellow officer from Sheffield, Richard Sharpe? he he )

All three brothers served at Corunna, and William also fought at Waterloo, and wrote letters giving his eyewitness accounts.

Charles was killed storming the fortress at Badajoz in 1812

Henry also fought in the Peninsular War and was at the victories of Salamanca and Vittoria.

William's horses from his army days, including one which was shot in the thigh at Waterloo,retired to Paddock Farm.

By a strange twist, one of the most famous horses bred at the stud by William's brother Thomas, Charles XII, won the St Leger and was sold to the former Emperor of France, Napoleon III.

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Hi Dean, Peter & Gramps

There are a few photos on Picture Sheffield of the Paddocks but I assume developed during the Victorian/Edwardian period.

http://www.picturesheffield.co.uk/cgi-bin/...jpgh/s09729.jpg

Is there a chance that all that land belonged to the Wilkinson family of Crowder House. They owned the Brush House estate as well as the land in Longley Park and Cliffe House ( a dower house) at Lane Top as well.

Resurrecting this one. I'm working through an article by Mary Walton, which includes a memorial tablet. According to MW, this format follows a convention in which the top letter is the initial of the family, and the lower ones the initials of the owner and his wife.

So we should be looking for a Mr. W and Mrs M. S, 1691

(Did you get anywhere with First Point Dean?)

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Guest Gramps

The only notable family I can think of were the Shirecliffes - weren't they at Whitley Hall in Ecclesfied ?

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Guest Trefcon

Hi Peter, apologies, only just seen your question. I got no where with first point, they referred the question to local studies and they couldn't help.

Search continues.

Dean.

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Hi All,

The date stone is actually from the the Bell Houses that stood at at the bottom of Stubbin Lane / Firth Park. when they were demolished ( presumably when the brushes estate was built ) The stone from the houses was used to build a wall on the very spot where the date stone is now. The current red brick wall has only been standing over the last 20 - 30 years. I distinctly remember the old stone wall with the date stone recessed in. When the builders dismantled the old stone wall they inserted the date stone into the new red brick one.

Here's a story of how i know the the source of the date stone:

During the 70's I was a member of the 210th Sheffield Scout Troop and our base was at Brushes School. One of the scoutmasters was a legend of a man who was an ex history teacher at brushes: Theodore Francis Johnson, known affectionately by adults, teachers and students alike as "Spike" Johnson.

Spike came to teach at the Brushes in 1937 and worked teaching history there until his retirement and died in 2001 aged 93. It was before world war 2 That Theo Johnson ran a game for the scout troop which had a gangster theme, in this he took the part of a rough gangster known as Spike and this name stuck for the rest of his life !

Spike became the history keeper of the Brushes Estate and and wrote the book "The Brushes Story" around about 1977 ( of which I still have a copy) Please see the link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/lwbqFM0PTcygHJ9647Cw1Q

During our Friday night meets at the scouts and throughout the summer months, Spike would have the troop walking around the Brushes building telling us the full history of the house. This extended to walking around the Brushes Estate and one of our excursions was to the mentioned date stone recessed in the old stone wall ! And Spike explained that the stone for the wall and the date stone were from the demolished Bell houses. 

I have great memories of such a great man who had a MASSIVE influence in my life. i would recommend to read the book, which still can be found on the internet and also the following short biography of Spike on the following link:

http://www.sheffieldscoutarchives.org.uk/people/t_f_johnson.html

R.I.P Theodore Francis Johnson

download.jpg

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I grew up near Lane Top and walked past the wall, with its inscription,  4 times every day, going to and coming from FPGS where "Spike" was , for a time, my form master. He was famous for his "ghost stories" about the Brushes and especially, I recall, one about a riderless horse which had thrown its rider into the brook at the bottom of the hill killing the rider.

I joined in the "wide games" held by the Scouts, seemingly, always on cold winters nights across and around Longley Park and district. The old stone inscription and its wall , I was told, probably by Spike, came from an old property demolished in order to build the Corporation estate

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On 29 March 2008 at 20:10, syrup said:

 

 

Hi deansgirl

Just a thought could S W M stand for Sheffield Water Main ( i am only guessing ).

I don't think they had water mains in 1691!!

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15 hours ago, lysander said:

I grew up near Lane Top and walked past the wall, with its inscription,  4 times every day, going to and coming from FPGS where "Spike" was , for a time, my form master. He was famous for his "ghost stories" about the Brushes and especially, I recall, one about a riderless horse which had thrown its rider into the brook at the bottom of the hill killing the rider.

I joined in the "wide games" held by the Scouts, seemingly, always on cold winters nights across and around Longley Park and district. The old stone inscription and its wall , I was told, probably by Spike, came from an old property demolished in order to build the Corporation estate

Hi Lysander,

I great to hear that Spike was your form master and i'm sure you have fond memories of him, just like everyone who came across him. i can distinctly remember Spike telling me the date stone was from the Bell houses. As well as taking us on his guided history tours of the Brushes Estate, he also told us some cracking ghost stories. These were usually delivered at the end of the scout meet on a Friday night ( Just turning dark) , with us all gathered around him on the stage in the main hall at brushes, he was an amazing story teller. 

your story about the riderless horse has just brought back a memory of another spot on one of Spikes guided tours we visited. A mausoleum was built for one of the Booth family, quite an impressive building it was too by the drawings i have seen of it. The location is exactly where the steps are now running from Horninglow Rd. up to the oval. if you travel past Brushes now as though you are heading for town down Barnsley rd. it is the second turning after Brushes. If you look left there are some steep steps, the very top of these steps was the exact location and one of the Booths was buried there with his horse. When the estate was built, the bones were re-buried in Burngreave cemetery.

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