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Sheffields Rivers


Guest carlie167

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Hmmm, I checked it out, but never found the inlet end, since it flows into the don. Short of taking a boat in a rowing against the current up the outlet, I can't think of a way to investigate it. Due to the area, it's not the best place to be lifting manholes.

Hi by the way, haven't dropped by here for a while!

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  • 1 year later...
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  • SteveHB

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An interesting question! Thinking about it, am I right in thinking that all the Sheffield rivers run their whole course within the city boundary, except the Don, which certainly leaves the city, but I'm not sure where it actually rises.

You can trace the open parts of the rivers on the A-Z, and play 'join the dots' on the culverted bits!

There was a planning row recently because the Council is supposed to have a policy of 'de-culverting' the rivers when new development arises, but they allowed a developer to culvert part of the Porter which was previously open.

All your answers can be found on sheffield forum site.

But just as a taster ,,The Sheaf flows uderground from opposite the ice ring (if it still is the ice ring) opposite bottom of granville rd,-under the midland station where the porter joins it underground;It pops up again just before ponds forge then goes underground and joins the DON at blonk st bridge,The sheffield forum site if you look for the MEGATRON drain,you will find fantastic pics,of the tunnel under the station. The PORTER goes underground at pear st the old wards brewery

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History dude

A friend/historian of mine was doing some research on Woodthorpe Hall and found a field name called "Car". We managed to track this field down to the same place where a natural spring still bubbles up and creates a marshy ground. The location of this marsh is on the Woodthorpe ravine just down below Mansfield Road Fire Station, where Pit Lane leads down to it, just near some playing fields used by Prince Edward School for football. If you follow the natural course down it emerges at Springwood Hotel as the Car Brook. The conclusion is that the spring bubbling up is the source of that brook. And Car is the old norse for marsh. So the people who perhaps lived at the Thorpe (settlement) in the Wood back in 1200 to 1300 named the bit of ground as a Car and it gave rise to the Car Brook.

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  • 5 months later...

I know this thread has been dormant a little while but I have just stumbled across it having spent all morning taking pictures of the river down town. It just happens to coincide with something I'm doing. I stumbled upon this exposed section on Shoreham street inbetween BBC Radio Sheffield and the Archives. However, my brain must be broken cos I can't work out which river it is. Is it the Sheaf?

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I know this thread has been dormant a little while but I have just stumbled across it having spent all morning taking pictures of the river down town. It just happens to coincide with something I'm doing. I stumbled upon this exposed section on Shoreham street inbetween BBC Radio Sheffield and the Archives. However, my brain must be broken cos I can't work out which river it is. Is it the Sheaf?

saw119

Your photograph is the River Porter, the Porter runs into the River Sheaf underground near the Midland Station,

do not worry about bringing old Topics back to life, we need more questions like yours.

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History dude

saw119

Your photograph is the River Porter, the Porter runs into the River Sheaf underground near the Midland Station,

do not worry about bringing old Topics back to life, we need more questions like yours.

I beg to differ SteveHB. It looks like they remain in two seperate tunnels/pipes for each river till the leave at the point clearly visible to the eye at the junction of Pond Hill and Sheaf Street. I have stood at that bidge point several times and noticed the two flow rates of each of the rivers to be different. I think it was designed that way, as having a junction in a two pipes could lead to all sorts of water management issues. They wouldn't want loud gurgling noises upsetting the passengers above Midland station. ;-) lol

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Thanks! I think. Ok, so if I'm getting this it means my pic is the Porter which then runs on and joins the Sheaf just past the Midland station. So the river channels of the Porter and Sheaf run either side of Shoreham street and Sheaf street. The Porter comes along Ecclesall road, roughly. Where is that bridge where you can see the two rivers join? I can't seem to place it, I wanna go there.

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I beg to differ SteveHB. It looks like they remain in two seperate tunnels/pipes for each river till the leave at the point clearly visible to the eye at the junction of Pond Hill and Sheaf Street. I have stood at that bidge point several times and noticed the two flow rates of each of the rivers to be different. I think it was designed that way, as having a junction in a two pipes could lead to all sorts of water management issues. They wouldn't want loud gurgling noises upsetting the passengers above Midland station. ;-)lol

I do agree with you, take a look at my photo

think the only way we could find out for sure, would be to put on the wellies and go down there.

:)

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History dude

Yorkshire Water or who ever is responsible for the rivers or pipes under Midland should know without putting wellies on :)

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I beg to differ SteveHB. It looks like they remain in two seperate tunnels/pipes for each river till the leave at the point clearly visible to the eye at the junction of Pond Hill and Sheaf Street. I have stood at that bidge point several times and noticed the two flow rates of each of the rivers to be different. I think it was designed that way, as having a junction in a two pipes could lead to all sorts of water management issues. They wouldn't want loud gurgling noises upsetting the passengers above Midland station. ;-)lol

Right History Dude,

so if the the Porter and the Sheaf remain in two separate tunnels/pipes until they reach the Bridge at Pond Hill,

I can't help but wonder why the right hand side channel, (looking at my photo)

is carrying a lot more water than the left side.

Surely the River Sheaf being the dominant river of the two, carrying more water

would be on the L/H side looking at the photo,

or do the two rivers cross at some point <_<

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History dude

Yes it would seem that would be the logical thing. But as your photo shows one is much stronger than the other and I can't recall seeing it any other way. So it would seem that the most likely explantion is that the railway engineers made the Porter cross over to the other side. I know that they did a lot of alterations to the Sheaf, like getting rid of the 'kink' where it says Rolling Mill on Fairbanks map of 1795.

But also that map shows a straight "man made" channel for the Porter going direct to the Sheaf. This was clearly constructed because the Pond Hill Dams block the direct course of the porter into Sheffield town. However that junction would have been under Midland Station, so if the engineers wanted to stop the that happening, which would have caused water managment problems had they left it in place, they could have took the Porter River over the Sheaf and that could be why the Porter comes out the wrong side.

See Map below:

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I was going to say that after checking some maps last night it seemed to me that the Porter was joining the Sheaf in the eighteenth century well in advance of where they join now which is past the mIdland Station.

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History dude

I certainly believe that the two rivers meet at that point shown in the photo. The channel leading to the Sheaf on the 1795 map is still present on the O.S. Map for 1850(?). New roads have been added and just below it is Turner Street. So the straight channel (still visible today) is that same channel on the 1795 map. It then goes into a pipe/tunnel where the approach to Midland Station would be. I can't believe that the two rivers join at this point as it would create all sorts of flooding issues. When the dam engineers constructed the straight channel and joined it to the Sheaf they would have created a flood plain in the fields where the two rivers meet. However the railway engineers would have piped it in. If they left the junction in, they would create a bootleneck. With the Sheaf the strongest the Porter would back up when both rivers had just a decent flow on them. Confined in a tunnel/pipe the water pressure would overflow at the entrance to the pipe, just like a blocked drain and the Porter would flood the station. However by carrying the Porter over the Sheaf you avoid this problem and with a left angled turn get the river flowing back on course. If you then merge the rivers together into a wide channel increased flow on both rivers doesn't create a bootleneck. Well not untill the the two rivers join the Don. Thus greatly reducing the risk of flooding. Leaving only MASSIVE storms to cause flooding from either just too much water or the bootleneck at the Don.

It shows the level of skill that railway engineers did to put the station there. Actually the same system is used for cars joining motorways, ease them in rather than joining the weaker road at a junction.

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I went down there this morning to have a look and in my opinion the Porter joisn the Sheaf under Midland Station and then what emerges flowing towards Blonk Street is both rivers combined. The right channel of the river as it emerged wasa much faster flowing than the left channel. Now, by our reckoning the right channel must be the Porter and the left channel the Sheaf but the Sheaf is a much bigger river. The first picture shows the Porter as it reaches the Midland station and the second picture shows both channels emerging at Pond Hill. The rivers would have to have crossed over each other for the stream rates to match unless they have already become one river by this point. In my opinion of course.

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History dude

You do realise that those images show one smaller river and one larger river going in and coming out of those tunnels. The flow rates would be altered by the curve (if it is there) or size of the pipes. The one with the less amount of water coming out of it, if both rivers had merged, would have to have some kind of obstruction to reduce the flow. However I can't see why the engineers would do that?

Without exploring them, the only way would be to put something like a harmless die in the Porter and see if it came out of both.

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hilldweller

All the references to the Megatron Culvert indicate that the rivers meet at a point in line with the open Sheaf culvert directly under the station. The combined flows travel along several parallel channels with open archways between them allowing mingling of the waters.

I will try to post a link to a 28 Days Later post about a trip down the Porter into the Megatron (the unofficial name of the Sheaf Culvert).

HD

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History dude

All the references to the Megatron Culvert indicate that the rivers meet at a point in line with the open Sheaf culvert directly under the station. The combined flows travel along several parallel channels with open archways between them allowing mingling of the waters.

I will try to post a link to a 28 Days Later post about a trip down the Porter into the Megatron (the unofficial name of the Sheaf Culvert).

http://www.28dayslat...ead.php?t=41327

HD

Sorry I don't see the connection with the two rivers at all. The chap was following the Porter and he comes out of the Tunnel on the left excatly like I said. The other Tunnel being the Sheaf in 3 tunnels as it turns out.

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hilldweller

All the references to the Megatron Culvert indicate that the rivers meet at a point in line with the open Sheaf culvert directly under the station. The combined flows travel along several parallel channels with open archways between them allowing mingling of the waters.

I will try to post a link to a 28 Days Later post about a trip down the Porter into the Megatron (the unofficial name of the Sheaf Culvert).

28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showpost.php

HD

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hilldweller

Sorry I don't see the connection with the two rivers at all. The chap was following the Porter and he comes out of the Tunnel on the left excatly like I said. The other Tunnel being the Sheaf in 3 tunnels as it turns out.

If you look at the 28days later post entitled Megatron-Sheffield-March-2010 it shows an exploration of the Megatron culvert starting at the River Sheaf end with a very clear photo of the inside of the Porter Brook in-Fall grill taken from within the main culvert.

There are many threads of the Megatron and they all show three parallel stone built tunnels with linking archways all the way under the station. They are doing a lot of spraycrete re-enforcing work and diverting the flows down different channels to facilitate work, that may explain the different flows. There is also a great deal of rock debris which will cause the flows to alter with flow rate.

HD

=============================

Edit: link 28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showpost.

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If you look at the 28days later post entitled Megatron-Sheffield-March-2010 it shows an exploration of the Megatron culvert starting at the River Sheaf end with a very clear photo of the inside of the Porter Brook in-Fall grill taken from within the main culvert.

There are many threads of the Megatron and they all show three parallel stone built tunnels with linking archways all the way under the station. They are doing a lot of spraycrete re-enforcing work and diverting the flows down different channels to facilitate work, that may explain the different flows. There is also a great deal of rock debris which will cause the flows to alter with flow rate.

HD

Following the Porter Brook River to the Megatron ..

www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.

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hilldweller

Following the Porter Brook River to the Megatron ..

www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.

That's the link to the earlier thread. The latest one I was referring to is at Megatron-Sheffield-March-2010 showing the infall.

I can't seem to get the url's links right the SH site seems to truncate them. The correct thread ends in 48481.

HD

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