Sheffield Battalion

[mickjj]

Here is a picture of the 12th Battalion (Sheffield) of the Yorks & Lancs Regiment outside Midland Station around 1920

[Sheffield History]

third from the right

Comedy tash

:D :D

[Guest codeyes]

third from the right

Comedy tash

:D :D

That's POIROT innit? Or is it my grandad??

[Guest pfn]

Hi Folks

On a more serious note than comedy moustaches. The photo of the 12th (Sheffield) Battalion must have been taken before 'around 1920'.

The Battalion was formed up out of local volunteers very early on at the beginning of World War I (1914-18) The men are still in their civilian clothes, so have only just joined up. They started their training before they even received uniforms, using the City football grounds among other places.

The Battalion reached the front line on the Somme just in time for the massacre that became known as the Big Push. Most were killed in less than a week.

Paul N

[Sheffield History]

Thanks Paul

I couldn't even imagine how those people felt on their way to war

[ManoutotCity]

They just accepted it - they were mostly volunteers in the early years - they wanted to go, though probably couldn’t imagine what the’d actually signed up to.
Many didn’t come back of course; many who did, were maimed/obviously psychologically, scarred.
What IS surprising however is the apparent, RELATIVELY  ‘easy’ resettlement back into civilian life of so many of the ‘lucky’ ones - ‘continuing where they’d left off’ - some even to take part in another World War twenty years later.
Did they just put it behind them and get on with civilian work/family life? 
Were they coping, quietly, with what we now call PTSD? There’s no evidence that I’ve seen, of great demands on the medical/psychiatric services.
Maybe the answer is that they were a very different society, different people from today - accepting of situations and what was asked of them. After all, they often came  from a hard, civilian existence - Victorian/Edwardian slum housing, work or starve ethic, combat aside, making a disciplined, ordered, military existence in itself, not difficult to adapt to. 
Yes, some ran away - even ‘walked off the job’. Who could blame them? The law of that time couldn’t allow that and though maybe surprisingly, not all, some, as we know  were executed for their actions. 
Yet others, paradoxically often conscripts (military ‘forced labour’) - as the War wore on, ‘stuck it’, learned the soldier’s trade and applied it incredibly well - winning many, many, gallantry awards - just like their Regular and TA counterparts though in their cases, volunteers to a man. 
Slightly out of context, there is in existence from the 1930s, a fascinating photograph of a group of ordinary - looking, ageing, men attending a military tattoo in the North of England, very smart with military moustaches, suits, hats and with raincoats over their arms. An ordinary scene of old men out together - could have been at the races or a 1001 other outings but they were special guests at the event because of their military service some half century before - they’d been in the Zulu War and present at the famous Defence of Rorkes Drift in South Africa, in 1879 - a few of a few score of men who’d stood firm  against repeated  onslaughts of equally brave, clever, warriors, defending their country against  invaders. Those survivors had fought and survived to see the their families, the motor car, the aeroplane, electricity and hundreds of thousands of their military successors go to their deaths in a World War. 
A very different society, very different people....

 

 

[lysandernovo]

An interesting fact is that the British shot more soldiers in WW1 for "desertion, cowardice etc" than did the Germans who believed it was bad for morale and trusted their officer corps to deal, locally, with most situations.

The "Pals" joined up, often out of bravado...believing it would all be over soon and  some thought it would be a bit of adventure and something they didn't want to miss.  Some believed it was their duty. Not all of the "Pals" came from " hard" backgrounds. Indeed, so poor was the health of many that they were judged unfit for military service. One tale tells of a whole Battalion, toward the end of the conflict when manpower was scarce, missing most of their teeth...They had to be fed on a diet of soft foods and drinks.The psychological affect of  a war such as the industrial scale of the Great War was less well understood and many of those who were executed were suffering from what ,nowadays, would be classed as PTSD . Today, they would have received treatment rather than a bullet...but such was the attitude of our ruling , military classes.

By 1918 the British Army consisted of some 4,000,000 men and not all of them would have served in the trenches .

Incidentally, a great uncle of mine, a keen Sheffield Methodist  refused to bear arms and became a consciencious objector. However ,he joined the Royal Army Medical Corps.. served in Flanders .was decorated for bravery and was promoted in the field. He left the Army as a Captain.....the rank he maintained as a member of the Home Guard in the continuation war.

[ManoutotCity]

As with many other historic events and situations the application of standards and such Military (and for want  if a better word, ‘civilian’ )Law needs to be viewed against the standards of the time, not those of a century later, however we may condemn some of those standards and their applicants and/or sympathise with the actions of hapless, individuals, it should be borne in mind that all sentences were subject to ‘confirmation’ ie they were passed up the line for final consideration and ratification (or otherwise - and  it is a fact that not a few death sentences were NOT carried out, which suggests that at least SOME thought/discretion was applied by somebody ). Not ALL senior commanders were the hard-baked, insensitive  nincompoops  which some popular commentators on such as WW1 would have us believe. It should also be borne in mind that not all capital offences related (purely) to acts of desertion, for example murder (and there were quite a few instances of unlawful killing among those who who appear on the relevant records) carried the death penalty, on conviction, outside the military as well as within. I suggest it would be quite wrong to lump- in those cases and those convicted, with the cases of the men who simply ran or walked away from war although even then, in broad terms, Military  Law, prescribed  the application of the death penalty....a state of affairs advocated and applied by Armies, World-wide for many years before The First World War. Indeed, although many would throw up their hands in horror, I would suggest that it will remain  an option for all Armies in the future - engaged in such as general war, to seek to dissuade critical acts, detrimental to  control and successful prosecution of such a conflict eg of soldiers deserting,( or civilians looting), to apply the age old principle of, ‘pour dissuader les outres’.

[MartinR]

A thoughtful piece ManoutotCity.  It's also worth adding that some of the more "pig-headed" battles might have more to them than meets the eye; sometimes a campaign had to be prosecuted to relieve threats elsewhere on the line, consider the May 1917 mutiny of French forces.

Slightly off topic, in March 1757 Admiral John Byng was court-martialed and executed for failing to "do his utmost" to stop the French conquering Minorca.  This was satirised in Voltaire's Candide where Candide and Martin witness an admiral being shot "pour encourager les autres", literally, "to encourage the others [to do better]".

[Hopman]

8 hours ago, lysandernovo said:

Incidentally, a great uncle of mine, a keen Sheffield Methodist  refused to bear arms and became a conscientious objector. However ,he joined the Royal Army Medical Corps.. served in Flanders .was decorated for bravery and was promoted in the field. He left the Army as a Captain.....the rank he maintained as a member of the Home Guard in the continuation war.

I wonder if this was the inspiration for the episode in Dad's Army (Series 3, Episode 11) when the platoon discover that Godfrey was a conscientious objector in WW1 and was awarded the Military Medal for bravery under fire as a medical orderly?

[lysandernovo]

Indeed, the death sentence was issued for crimes such as murder but, nevertheless, the fact is that the British Army  carried out more military executions than did the German Army. I had  Great Uncles who served in WW1 . They  all regarded Haig and by inference, the whole of the High Command, rightly or wrongly, as a "butcher". Tactics evolved, lessons were learned and the military death toll in the later and much bigger conflict reflect this. ( WW1: 880,000 in 4 years WW2:  384,000 in 6 years)

 

[ManoutotCity]

.........and a bit of help from the USA!

[lysandernovo]

The lessons learned during WW1 were being put into practice in 1918 by both sides, The German Operation Michael  and the Allied tactics during the Battle of Amiens being examples of attempts to return to mobile warfare . In WW1 the Americans provided manpower but rather less in the way of equipment . However, in WW2 without their enormous contribution to the Allies in virtually everything from finance to frigates, remains one of history's great "IFS".

[MartinR]

Again good points, but not the whole story.  Prior to lend-lease the UK had to pay for goods from the US using gold ("cash and carry").  We did obtain 50 destroyers (all built 1920 or earlier) from the US, but had to grant 99 year leases on 9 bases on Empire soil to the US.  The UK also contributed 90% of the £8bn (£124 bn today) "reverse lend-lease".  We finally finished paying off the debt on 29 December 2006.

[lysandernovo]

An interesting topic and one which has fascinated me for years. After Pearl Harbour, when the industrial muscle  of the USA was mobilised, the USA produced vast quantities of  weapons, ships, aircraft, ammunition and general equipment...much of which went to aid the Soviets...including many of the boots their Army used! Before "lend lease" we had bought aircraft and other weapons some of which were "rolled" across the Canadian border so as to maintain the illusion of  USA neutrality.

That the USA ensured we paid off the debt...cancelling the arrangement and insisting on repayment within days of the ending of the War... whilst, by comparison, Commonwealth countries wrote theirs off has always reminded me that the Yanks "don't do owt for nowt"....and they objected, strongly, to the UK developing the Social Security system and NHS which the nascent Labour Government planned to introduce ,whilst in receipt of  American aid. Maynard Keynes was sent by Attlee to Washington to plead our case and came back empty handed!

Back to topic ....the concept of "Pals Battalions", where locals were recruite and fought together was not repeated ( so far as I know) after the slaughter on the Somme when too many local communities were left devestated at the casualties