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Guest jmcee

Orgreave Sidings

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Hjdary

This wil be the place that all the locals are going mad about then!

It makes me laugh that these numpties have bought their ten-bob-millionaire-barrat-shoebox houses along side a railway line and goods yard and then they complain when people want to repair trains there!

Also given where thier mansions are thrown up, they wont see anything thats going on down there as they are quite a distance away.

I think the problem is snobbery.

Think back a year or two ago when a builder wanted to name a row of houses in Wath "Collier Road". These houses were built on former mining land in a area with a rich mining history but the locals wouldn't have it..it had to be lakeside pastures or some such.

Getting back to my point....I dont think that noise or pollution are the real reasons...they are just frightened that one day they are going to be telling someone that the live on John Calvert, what ever it is, and the person they are talking to is going to say 'oh I know where you mean near the Orgreave goods yard.'

While I'm on one.....

Why is Orgreave no longer Orgreave? It seems that in the last year or three Orgreave has become Woodhouse Mill?

is this a wish to remove the name and the links to the miners strike perhaps??

I promise I wont rant like this again for a week or two.

thank you.

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Guest jmcee

Just found the drama on the sheffield forum. The site is a rusting old railway sidings and a big scrap yard it's hardly the garden of eden or something. This kind of area is well suited to this kind of development imo especially with the railway degrees at SHU. People must realise the history of this place? do you think the estate agents have been selling it as some sort of country village?

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Hjdary

NIMBYism...thats all it is.

We had a bit of it round here a year or two ago when one of the local farmers tried to make a few bob by selling a bit of land to a wind turbine company.

The locals went nuts.!!

There was scare stories all over the place about low level humming from the blades and shreaded birds..blah blah blah all bollo*ks spouted by daily mail reading scaredy pants people who were worried by the cr*p they read in the daily outrage about falling house prices.

For me they can come and put one of those in my garden if they wish...they look beautiful. I could sit and watch them all day as they glide round but thanks to MR and Mrs Charles Nimby Esq and his neighbours down in Throapham we were denied this and a poor farmer was denied the much needed cash he was promised for the sale of the land.

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pgmetcalf

Here we go. Sorry about the quality but atleast you get the general idea. Pictures curteousy of E M Johnson: Scenes from the past: 29 (part 3) Woodhead, the Electric Railway.

Coal was loaded at the unwired Orgreave Sidings and then shunted down to Rotherwood where they would be hooked to the electric EM1 or Class 76 locos, which would take the load up through Wadsley Bridge and then over Woodhead

Orgreave Sidings

Rotherwood Sidings

Oh right Beighton Junction ... not sure where that is but I do have a few pictures of Woodhouse Junction. That'll teach me not to read posts when I'm tired

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Stuart0742

Here we go. Sorry about the quality but atleast you get the general idea. Pictures curteousy of E M Johnson: Scenes from the past: 29 (part 3) Woodhead, the Electric Railway.

Coal was loaded at the unwired Orgreave Sidings and then shunted down to Rotherwood where they would be hooked to the electric EM1 or Class 76 locos, which would take the load up through Wadsley Bridge and then over Woodhead

Orgreave Sidings

Rotherwood Sidings

Oh right Beighton Junction ... not sure where that is but I do have a few pictures of Woodhouse Junction. That'll teach me not to read posts when I'm tired

See link below

Google Map Link - Beighton Rail Yard

You get a good view of the old railway yard when you drive accross the viaduct from the Hackenthorpe area towards the A57 Aston bypass

Try this Google Earth picture

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GrinderBloke

I think people are a little confused, (maybe I am ;-) )...

The site planned on being developed is the old BR civil engineers siding at Beigton Junc:-

http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=53.357151&a...r=0&src=msl

Orgreave sidings was the location where coke from Orgreave coking plant were marshalled before being taken to the various steel works:

http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=53.379131&a...r=0&src=msl

Rotherwood Exchange sidings where at the bottom of the old Asda car park, this is where freight trains swapped from diesel to electric locomotives and visa versa:

http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=53.374381&a...r=0&src=msl

All locations are quite close together, but served different purposes.

The second picture of "Rotherwood Sidings" posted by pgmetcalf shows the view looking East, Asda was on the right hand side.

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Guest bus man

It now seems totaly unbeliveable but in the 1960's when cravens at darnall were making DMU's for BR there were problems in that the units were ready Cravens had to get them out of the factory but BR hadnt got the room in the depots to receive them so therefore they were stored in sidings near to woodhouse station

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Guest bus man

It now seems totaly unbeliveable but in the 1960's when cravens at darnall were making DMU's for BR there were problems in that the units were ready Cravens had to get them out of the factory but BR hadnt got the room in the depots to receive them so therefore they were stored in sidings near to woodhouse station

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Guest tsavo

Here we go. Sorry about the quality but atleast you get the general idea. Pictures curteousy of E M Johnson: Scenes from the past: 29 (part 3) Woodhead, the Electric Railway.

Coal was loaded at the unwired Orgreave Sidings and then shunted down to Rotherwood where they would be hooked to the electric EM1 or Class 76 locos, which would take the load up through Wadsley Bridge and then over Woodhead

Orgreave Sidings

Rotherwood Sidings

Oh right Beighton Junction ... not sure where that is but I do have a few pictures of Woodhouse Junction. That'll teach me not to read posts when I'm tired

Just cleaned up the second picture a little. Hope this is OK. L

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Stuart0742

Looks like the NIMBY's may be revolting again soon, as Sheffield bids for a Rail Factory, and upto 500 jobs

There are 3 possible sites all derelict and all railway or ex railway land

Tinsley Yard

Rotherwood Sidings

Orgreave/Bighton Junction

See article in tonight's Star

The other year there was a local public protest when National Rail wanted to build a maintenance depot at Beighton Junction. Now it may start again.

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pgmetcalf

Looks like the NIMBY's may be revolting again soon, as Sheffield bids for a Rail Factory, and upto 500 jobs

There are 3 possible sites all derelict and all railway or ex railway land

Tinsley Yard

Rotherwood Sidings

Orgreave/Bighton Junction

See article in tonight's Star

The other year there was a local public protest when National Rail wanted to build a maintenance depot at Beighton Junction. Now it may start again.

Can't see it happening in sheffield to be honest. I think the favourite is the old wabtec buildings at Doncaster.

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Dickdioxide

Can't see it happening in sheffield to be honest. I think the favourite is the old wabtec buildings at Doncaster.

The current press release does not include Doncaster on the shortlist to build a new train assembly plant in the UK for Agility-Sheffield, Gateshead and Ashby de la Zouch are the shortlist.

Doncaster will have a new depot to service these longer trains.

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madannie77

It is notable, given the railways' tendency to get names wrong, that it was certainly known for a long time as Orgreaves. There was a fine accident here in 1926, consisting of two collisions caused by a lot of people not following procedures in thick fog. The accident report can be downloaded (as a PDF file) from The Railway Archive.

One aspect I find interesting is that one of the trains involved was the 5.20 am Sheffield to Orgreaves miners' train, which had 594 men on board.

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Guest Unitedite

I was interested to read your various articles on Orgreave Sidings and thought that you might similarly be interested in the attached photograph.

Taken in 1966 as an Agfa 35mm colour transparency, by the late Philip Downsby, Coal Merchant, of Catcliffe, the photograph shows United Coal Company Limiteds shunting locomotive number 2444/16 at Orgreave Colliery Sidings.

Built at the Meadowhall Engine Company works at Meadowhall, this Janus Class coupled six wheeled, twin engine locomotive was one of three such engines operating at the Orgreave Coke and Chemical By-products works at that time.

Along with a Meadowhall Engine Company works, Paxman Class, coupled six wheeled; locomotive, these three Janus Class engines formed the mainstay of the works traffic operating fleet.

It is known that these engines were occasionally loaned out to the United Coal Company Limiteds, Brookhouse Coke and Chemical By-products works in order to supplement the locomotive fleet at that site. The transfer to and from Brookhouse was effected by running along the British Railways [Great Central Railway] mainline, through Rotherwood, Woodhouse and Woodhouse Junction. I am unaware if any photographs exist of these engines running mainline, but if they did, I would be fascinated to see them.

The two railwaymen in the photographs are Tommy Williamson

and Hiram Wells

, who by this date, were both long standing members of the Orgreaves Traffic Department.



The locomotive is standing at the throat of the Up West Sidings and on the points crossing, which connects these sidings to the electrified Up Goods Line.

The line immediately behind the locomotive itself, branches three ways, to the [Orgreave [Coke Ovens] Branch Line, to the [Orgreave] Colliery Branch Line and to the Up Sidings East.

The bridge immediately behind the locomotive carries the B6066, Highfield Lane, down past the Orgreave Works and then onwards into Catcliffe Village. The bridge has today been superseded by a more modern structure and Highfield Lane is itself, now truncated and diverted a short distance beyond that bridge. The area that is to the left of the bridge later became infamous as the site of the Battle of Orgreave.

The second bridge beyond carries the now also truncated Orgreave Lane, which at that time lead down into Orgreave Colliery Yard and onto Orgreave Hall. Further beyond this bridge is Rotherwood Exchange Sidings.

Orgreave Colliery Signal Box is visible between the two bridges, on the extreme right of the photograph. Orgreave Colliery Signal Box gained the S suffix as the result of a naming error by the railway company.

Orgreave Colliery Sidings were the point of wagon exchange for both the Coke Ovens and Colliery, although both also had similar exchange facilities with the former Midland Railway Companys line at Treeton.

Orgreave Colliery Sidings were also known as Orgreave Land Sale as a number of local coal merchants [Philip Downsby included] made use of the site for the purchase, the offloading and the storage of coal.

The negative came into my possession through Philip Downsby and later, through my own father, to whom he had passed it, some years ago.

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Stuart0742

I was interested to read your various articles on Orgreave Sidings and thought that you might similarly be interested in the attached photograph.

Taken in 1966 as an Agfa 35mm colour transparency, by the late Philip Downsby, Coal Merchant, of Catcliffe, the photograph shows United Coal Company Limited's shunting locomotive number 2444/16 at Orgreave Colliery Sidings.

..............

The negative came into my possession through Philip Downsby and later, through my own father, to whom he had passed it, some years ago.

Thanks Unitedite, a great photo, and an excellent description of the scene

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Guest Unitedite

Thanks Unitedite, a great photo, and an excellent description of the scene

Thanks, for your kind words, but I'll take this opportunity point out the obvious typo error, for which I apologise.

It is afterall, the Yorkshire Engine Company works at Meadowhall and not the Meadowhall Engine Company works at Meadowhall

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Stuart0742

2 photos to illustrate the present day

From Orgreave Lane looking towards Highfield Lane

From Highfield Lane (old bridge) looking towards Handsworth

Gone are the sidings referred to by Unitedite, at least the railway is still there, in some form.

The photo Unitedite posted would have been taken looking back at the bridge in the 2nd photo

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madannie77

I was interested to read your various articles on Orgreave Sidings and thought that you might similarly be interested in the attached photograph.

Taken in 1966 as an Agfa 35mm colour transparency, by the late Philip Downsby, Coal Merchant, of Catcliffe, the photograph shows United Coal Company Limited’s shunting locomotive number 2444/16 at Orgreave Colliery Sidings.

Built at the Meadowhall Engine Company works at Meadowhall, this “Janus” Class coupled six wheeled, twin engine locomotive was one of three such engines operating at the Orgreave Coke and Chemical By-products works at that time.

Along with a Meadowhall Engine Company works, Paxman Class, coupled six wheeled; locomotive, these three “Janus” Class engines formed the mainstay of the work’s traffic operating fleet.

It is known that these engines were occasionally loaned out to the United Coal Company Limited’s, Brookhouse Coke and Chemical By-products works in order to supplement the locomotive fleet at that site. The transfer to and from Brookhouse was effected by running along the British Railways’ [Great Central Railway] mainline, through Rotherwood, Woodhouse and Woodhouse Junction. I am unaware if any photographs exist of these engines running mainline, but if they did, I would be fascinated to see them.

.......

Fabulous photo, Unitedite. Curious that during a conversation yesterday at the preserved railway where I spend most Sundays we were discussing which locomotive we would like to own, and my first answer was a Janus :)

I am rather confused, however: as I understand it, the United Coke & Chemicals company was part of United Steel, the coal mining activities having been nationalised in 1947.

Assuming the number 2444 quoted is the Yorkshire Engine Company's works number, something is wrong: according to my information YEC 2444 was an 0-6-0 Pannier Tank built in 1949 for the Western Region of British Rail. United Coke & Chemical had three Janus locos delivered new, works numbers 2753, 2754 and 2866. These were but three of a total of 102 built for United Steel's various sites, so it is possible that any of those 102 could have been transferred to Orgreave, either permanently or temporarily. I shall make enquiries.

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Guest Unitedite

Fabulous photo, Unitedite. Curious that during a conversation yesterday at the preserved railway where I spend most Sundays we were discussing which locomotive we would like to own, and my first answer was a Janus :)

I am rather confused, however: as I understand it, the United Coke & Chemicals company was part of United Steel, the coal mining activities having been nationalised in 1947.

Assuming the number 2444 quoted is the Yorkshire Engine Company's works number, something is wrong: according to my information YEC 2444 was an 0-6-0 Pannier Tank built in 1949 for the Western Region of British Rail. United Coke & Chemical had three Janus locos delivered new, works numbers 2753, 2754 and 2866. These were but three of a total of 102 built for United Steel's various sites, so it is possible that any of those 102 could have been transferred to Orgreave, either permanently or temporarily. I shall make enquiries.

Thank you for your very kind words.

I should perhaps firstly make it clear that the works number 2444/16 is in fact a UCC Ltd plant number that would have been applied to a railway locomotive as it would have been to any other item of plant, or machinery purchased by the company and as such, these numbers may bear no obvious relationship to any YEC Ltd works number,

Although not visible on this particular photograph, the UCC Ltd works number was exhibited, sometimes on the chassis frame, just below the running board, sometimes on the cabside and sometimes on both.

I have photographs taken during UCC Ltd days and during BSC Ltd days that would indicate that these works numbers [2444/16 in this instance], would have remained with the locomotive for the duration of it's working life.

You are correct in assuming that UCC Ltd was originally part of the United Steel Group of Companies, [so was YEC Ltd for that matter] and that both were ultimately to become part of the British Steel Corporation.

Originally however, Orgreave Coking Plant, Orgreave Colliery, Brookhouse Coking Plant and Brookhouse Colliery were all part of the Rother Valley Collieries, until the Collieries themselves were separately nationalised in 1948. I also believe that Treeton Colliery was also part of this group until nationalisation.

Having once been part of a single entity, the Coking Plants and the Collieries did share "common ground" and common services. For example, the Orgreave Coking Plant boiler house was located within the Orgreave Colliery Yard and I believe remained there until the plant's final closure and demolition.

I too love the Janus Class of locomotives and likewise would love to own one.

They appeared to have been popular with those railway crews that operated them, [or so I was always told first hand] and they were strong, sturdy and reliable.

I have had the privilege [albiet unofficially] of having driven two of these UCC Ltd's Janus class and have been in the cab of one, whilst it was comfortably pushing 6 x 20 ton loaded wagons up the 1 in 24 [i seem to remember that gradient] incline, over the viaduct and on, into Orgreave Sidings.

Not quite as spectacular as a steam locomotive, but pretty impressive all of the same.

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madannie77

Thanks for clarifying that, Unitedite. I should really have worked out that the number might be a United Steel/ United Coke & Chemical plant number, having worked in several factories, but I was looking at it from the Industrial Railway viewpoint. and was fooled by the number 2444 having similarity to the YEC works numbers

I am informed by members of the Industrial Railway Society (Mr Ken Scanes and Mr Bob Darvill, to whom many thanks for the speedy response) that 2444/16 was YEC 2753, built in 1959 and based at Orgreave unitl the closure of the coking plant. It then moved to the Shelton Works in Stoke and was used as a source of spares until final scrapping in 1995. :(

Given how many Janus locos are still at work today (including, I think, the very first one, at Stocksbridge Works), they must have something going for them. I am now jealous, as I have never had the chance to drive, or even be in the cab, of one.

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Guest Unitedite

Thanks for clarifying that, Unitedite. I should really have worked out that the number might be a United Steel/ United Coke & Chemical plant number, having worked in several factories, but I was looking at it from the Industrial Railway viewpoint. and was fooled by the number 2444 having similarity to the YEC works numbers

I am informed by members of the Industrial Railway Society (Mr Ken Scanes and Mr Bob Darvill, to whom many thanks for the speedy response) that 2444/16 was YEC 2753, built in 1959 and based at Orgreave unitl the closure of the coking plant. It then moved to the Shelton Works in Stoke and was used as a source of spares until final scrapping in 1995.

Given how many Janus locos are still at work today (including, I think, the very first one, at Stocksbridge Works), they must have something going for them. I am now jealous, as I have never had the chance to drive, or even be in the cab, of one.

Thanks for your update as to the rather sorry fate of 2444/16.

I therefore thought that you might like to see a further photograph of this locomotive taken in happier times.

Taken by myself on the 23rd January 1977, the photograph again shows 2444/16 at Orgreave By-products Works, this time, standing alongside the "Bottom Rail Weigh Office". The brick built building In the background was the locomotive shed.

The morning shift of the "Traffic Department" are stood in front of 2444/16.

The other YEC Ltd Janus working that day was 2444/20. I have photographs of that engine as well somewhere.

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andyrad

2 photos to illustrate the present day

From Orgreave Lane looking towards Highfield Lane

From Highfield Lane (old bridge) looking towards Handsworth

Gone are the sidings referred to by Unitedite, at least the railway is still there, in some form.

The photo Unitedite posted would have been taken looking back at the bridge in the 2nd photo

Similar pics showing Tornado passing by

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madannie77

Thanks for your update as to the rather sorry fate of 2444/16.

I therefore thought that you might like to see a further photograph of this locomotive taken in happier times.

Taken by myself on the 23rd January 1977, the photograph again shows 2444/16 at Orgreave By-products Works, this time, standing alongside the "Bottom Rail Weigh Office". The brick built building In the background was the locomotive shed.

The morning shift of the "Traffic Department" are stood in front of 2444/16.

The other YEC Ltd Janus working that day was 2444/20. I have photographs of that engine as well somewhere.

Another fine photo, unitedite. I hope you find more of these fine old industrial shots.

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Guest Unitedite

Thank you very much again for your kind words.

I will look out the other photographs of these locomotives that I do have and I will be pleased to share them with you, when I do.

In the mean time however, I can share with you the following two photographs, which I have found and which are beyond doubt, the last photographs that I ever took of the UCC Ltd’s Janus Class Shunting Engines.

It is also, the very last time that I ever saw any one of them.

These two photographs were taken late in 1990, by which time, Orgreave Coking and By-products Plant had closed its’ gates for the very last time.

The full-scale demolition of the works had yet to commence and Number 7 Battery Coke Ovens [the last battery to operate at that site] were still in the process of cooling down.

Scrap recovery however had already commenced by this time and the lifting of the railway lines at the very top of the works was already well under way.

The photographs show UCC Ltd Number 2444/17 and 2444/18, both of which appear to have gained additional numbers [2 and 3] by this time.

They are standing alongside the works’ substantive brick built locomotive shed along with a travelling rail crane and they are awaiting disposal.

It would seem that by this time that 2444/17 had already been cannibalised for spare parts and it is my understanding that its’ inevitable fate was to be cut-up on-site, along with most of the internal traffic railway wagons that it had propelled for most of its life.

I understand that 2444/18 was to enjoy a more pleasant fate. I cannot however confirm this, but I do hope that it was transferred out and that it continued to survive as a working locomotive elsewhere.

Of 2444/16 and 2444/20, there was no sign of either and they had certainly been removed from the Orgreave Site by the time that I made my own visit.

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