Vickers pals battalion ww1

[Treebaby76]

Is there a vickers pals battalion? My Great Grandad Reginald Moore (Findon street)  was a clerk in vickers steel works

His name is on the roll of honour outside the steel works but was wondering if anyone had any photos , I've researched him and even visited his grave in Arleux En Gohelle France , I just don't know what he looks like 

He was in the yorks and Lancs regiment got injured in Nov 1917 and died Jan 1918 

If anyone can help 🙂 TY in advance 

[johnm]

Hi, His service records are on ancestry - have you got them? I can't find anywhere with a photo though . I have had a look in Sheffield 1918 newspapers but they only give his obituary but  no photo. Best wishes, John

[Lysanderix]

The Vickers war memorial was not unique. Many organisations  including companies,churches and schools erected them as a memorial to employees, members and past pupils whose lives had been lost in the Great War,.

To the best of my knowledge Sheffield raised just the single “ Pals Battalion” ….the 12th Battalion Yorks and Lancs…Sheffield City…..which was largely sacrificed in the 1916 Somme campaign .

The  Battalion ,together with other Northern “Pals” battalions ,are commemorated on our own piece of France….Sheffield Park  at Serre on the Somme.

[Sadbrewer]

AS Lysanderix points out above, there wouldn't have been a Vickers Pals Btn on it's own.

[Treebaby76]

5 hours ago, johnm said:

Hi, His service records are on ancestry - have you got them? I can't find anywhere with a photo though . I have had a look in Sheffield 1918 newspapers but they only give his obituary but  no photo. Best wishes, John

Hi, yes we have them , I have a book which I've yet to read properly about the sheffield pals , it's mainly the photo I'm after , I know all his addresses where he was born etc 

Have you got a link to his obituary plz 

Thanks 

[Treebaby76]

4 hours ago, Lysanderix said:

The Vickers war memorial was not unique. Many organisations  including companies,churches and schools erected them as a memorial to employees, members and past pupils whose lives had been lost in the Great War,.

To the best of my knowledge Sheffield raised just the single “ Pals Battalion” ….the 12th Battalion Yorks and Lancs…Sheffield City…..which was largely sacrificed in the 1916 Somme campaign .

The  Battalion ,together with other Northern “Pals” battalions ,are commemorated on our own piece of France….Sheffield Park  at Serre on the Somme.

Yes the 12th battalion sounds familiar he managed to survive the somme , he is buried right by Hoppy woods don't know what battle was happening at the time , Somme was 1916 and he passed in jan 1918 after being wounded 2/3 months prior 

[Lysanderix]

Oppy Woods was an action during the 1917 Battle of Arras in which the British suffered heavy casualties.

Incidentally, a couple of my Great Uncles lost their lives at Arras.

[Sadbrewer]

3 hours ago, Treebaby76 said:

Yes the 12th battalion sounds familiar he managed to survive the somme , he is buried right by Hoppy woods don't know what battle was happening at the time , Somme was 1916 and he passed in jan 1918 after being wounded 2/3 months prior 

Treebaby...sorry if I'm looking at the wrong record...the chap I'm looking at is 204977 Pvt. Reginald Moore, 259 Broomhall Street. Married to Annie Woodmansey? Father of Reginald and Ruby....is that your man?

  If so he was never at the Somme, although he volunteered in December 1915, he wasn't mobilised for service until June 1917, he then underwent training with 3/4th Battalion until being posted to France on 11/12/1917. He was 1/5th on 12/12/17 but almost immediately moved to 2/5th, and killed in action 40 days later.

 

 

 

 

Besides working for Vickers he also ran an Off License at his home address...the license is being transferred to Annie below. He took the Off License in April 1915.

 

[Lysanderix]

 From the dates you give it is likely your ancestor was mortally wounded at the Second Battle  of Arras…,26 Aug to 3 Sept 1918….or just after when casualties ,on a daily basis….were still hundreds a day.

[Sadbrewer]

37 minutes ago, Lysanderix said:

 From the dates you give it is likely your ancestor was mortally wounded at the Second Battle  of Arras…,26 Aug to 3 Sept 1918….or just after when casualties ,on a daily basis….were still hundreds a day.

He was killed on 20th of January 1918 according to CWGC.

[Lysanderix]

I thought you said he had been wounded in 1917 and died in January 1918.
The British Army does not record any specific action taking place on 20 th January 1918….apart from the daily attrition.

[Sadbrewer]

1 hour ago, Lysanderix said:

I thought you said he had been wounded in 1917 and died in January 1918.
The British Army does not record any specific action taking place on 20 th January 1918….apart from the daily attrition.

The OP suggested that Lysanderix, but I think it's a mistake....if I have the right man (see above)...he didn't get to France until 12th December 1917 and was killed on 20th January 1918. According to CWGC he was one of seven 2/5th York & Lancs killed that day, so as you say, not a major action.

[Hopman]

Is there anything in his local church that might have a picture?I've seen another church which besides having a memorial board, also had a loose leaf file with details of the Fallen.

Is he listed on:

 

[Treebaby76]

6 hours ago, Sadbrewer said:

Treebaby...sorry if I'm looking at the wrong record...the chap I'm looking at is 204977 Pvt. Reginald Moore, 259 Broomhall Street. Married to Annie Woodmansey? Father of Reginald and Ruby....is that your man?

  If so he was never at the Somme, although he volunteered in December 1915, he wasn't mobilised for service until June 1917, he then underwent training with 3/4th Battalion until being posted to France on 11/12/1917. He was 1/5th on 12/12/17 but almost immediately moved to 2/5th, and killed in action 40 days later.

 

 

 

 

Besides working for Vickers he also ran an Off License at his home address...the license is being transferred to Annie below. He took the Off License in April 1915.

 

That's him!, sorry, findon street was a previous address  , I have an MOD  document from the cwgc that has him down as injured in late 1917 passing away in January 1918 we knew he wasn't at the somme , didnt know about the Off License though! Thanks for sharing this. 

[Treebaby76]

4 hours ago, Sadbrewer said:

He was killed on 20th of January 1918 according to CWGC.

Yes it was the 20th not the 25th as stated in his obituary but he wasn't killed on that day he was wounded late 1917 

[Treebaby76]

59 minutes ago, Hopman said:

Is there anything in his local church that might have a picture?I've seen another church which besides having a memorial board, also had a loose leaf file with details of the Fallen.

Is he listed on:

 

Sadly he isn't on there I have already checked 

Thanks though 

[Sadbrewer]

24 minutes ago, Treebaby76 said:

 he was wounded late 1917 

Tb76...I'm not completely sure that's right, if he was injured in November it must have been whilst training in the UK, he didn't get to France until the 12th of December 1917, he actually only spent 39 days in France in total, if he was wounded it must have been very minor as it's not mentioned in his service record and he's not down in the weekly casualty lists, apart from the one that lists his death. It's unlikely they found themselves on the frontline for a number of days, in fact their first casualty was Wilfred Searles on the 18th of December who is buried in the Etaples Cemetery, suggesting the battalion were undergoing live fire training at Etaples training camp.

   To get to the bottom of it you need to download the war diary...it won't mention him by name ( not being an Officer), but there were 5 2/5th men killed that day, only two are in Arleux En Gohelle...your GG and JT Duckitt of Beighton, if you're lucky the diary might say ''3 men killed at X location..2 men killed at Y location''

The diary is a free download from the National Archive, but it is not easy to find the right one, it is however available on Kindle via Amazon.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DIVISION-Infantry-Lancaster-Hallamshire-Battalion-ebook/dp/B019WRV0S2

Let us know how you go on.

There is a tree on Ancestry with photos of his widow and children...would that be yours?

[Treebaby76]

11 hours ago, Sadbrewer said:

Tb76...I'm not completely sure that's right, if he was injured in November it must have been whilst training in the UK, he didn't get to France until the 12th of December 1917, he actually only spent 39 days in France in total, if he was wounded it must have been very minor as it's not mentioned in his service record and he's not down in the weekly casualty lists, apart from the one that lists his death. It's unlikely they found themselves on the frontline for a number of days, in fact their first casualty was Wilfred Searles on the 18th of December who is buried in the Etaples Cemetery, suggesting the battalion were undergoing live fire training at Etaples training camp.

   To get to the bottom of it you need to download the war diary...it won't mention him by name ( not being an Officer), but there were 5 2/5th men killed that day, only two are in Arleux En Gohelle...your GG and JT Duckitt of Beighton, if you're lucky the diary might say ''3 men killed at X location..2 men killed at Y location''

The diary is a free download from the National Archive, but it is not easy to find the right one, it is however available on Kindle via Amazon.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DIVISION-Infantry-Lancaster-Hallamshire-Battalion-ebook/dp/B019WRV0S2

Let us know how you go on.

There is a tree on Ancestry with photos of his widow and children...would that be yours?

The tree could be my husbands we have been passed on lots of photos of Annie and her 2nd husband just none of her 1st husband,  

I think my husband has downloaded the diary's,  like you said it wasn't an easy find but I'm thinking that him being injured in December 1917 sounds more plausible but I definitely have a document that states he was injured before passing , we've been researching him for nearly 20yrs  and we only came across that document last year or the year before, but now I'm wondering if it's for another R Moore 

Thanks for you help , not got much on the Moore's other than Reginalds niece Gwendoline married Ralph Slazenger (tennis rackets and balls ) they bought powerscourt estate in Ireland, 

Annie remarried and had 2 more kids and I think any photos of her and Reginald went to Canada with their daughter Ruby, we've lost contact after Ruby's daughters passed sadly and there's not much on her other than she went to tunbridge wells with her 2nd husband 

If I find anything I'll let you know 

Thanks again Sadbrewer 😄

[Sadbrewer]

5 hours ago, Treebaby76 said:

The tree could be my husbands we have been passed on lots of photos of Annie and her 2nd husband just none of her 1st husband,  

I think my husband has downloaded the diary's,  like you said it wasn't an easy find but I'm thinking that him being injured in December 1917 sounds more plausible but I definitely have a document that states he was injured before passing , we've been researching him for nearly 20yrs  and we only came across that document last year or the year before, but now I'm wondering if it's for another R Moore 

Thanks for you help , not got much on the Moore's other than Reginalds niece Gwendoline married Ralph Slazenger (tennis rackets and balls ) they bought powerscourt estate in Ireland, 

Annie remarried and had 2 more kids and I think any photos of her and Reginald went to Canada with their daughter Ruby, we've lost contact after Ruby's daughters passed sadly and there's not much on her other than she went to tunbridge wells with her 2nd husband 

If I find anything I'll let you know 

Thanks again Sadbrewer 😄

Good grief... Gwendoline moved up in the world...I was looking at a piece from The Tatler in 1965, the couple hosted a bash at Powerscourt, amongst the guests were Prince Rainier and Princess Grace of Monaco!!....Powerscourt unfortunately burnt down in 1974.

[Treebaby76]

1 hour ago, Sadbrewer said:

Good grief... Gwendoline moved up in the world...I was looking at a piece from The Tatler in 1965, the couple hosted a bash at Powerscourt, amongst the guests were Prince Rainier and Princess Grace of Monaco!!....Powerscourt unfortunately burnt down in 1974.

She sure did , the Slazengers are still there its been restored sadly all documents, old photos etc got destroyed in the fire .