Jump to content

Early photo shop ?


tozzin

Recommended Posts

Take a good look at the accompanying photo of  a horse and carriage on Surrey Street, the horses, carriage, people looking look strangely very sharp focus, strange shadows from the onlookers, the carriage but the two leading horses are bereft of shadows. The surrounding street isn’t as sharp , the spare land on the left is lacking contrast as are the buildings on what was Fargate in the distance, seems this photo has been more constructed that just taken. The gas lamps are just paper cutouts by the look of them.
Any one see what I see?

1F13D029-D480-471E-BA36-3310ECF4A016.png

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi tozzin. Sorry! but I can't see to much wrong with it. Several people are looking up at the photographer,

who is presumably up at a building window. The differing exposures are probably due to the fact that the lens

was open for a lot longer than the instant photos that we are use to now, and if it was cloudy that would

account for lack of shadow. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The lamp post are not real, I still think it looks very iffy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it looks odd, because the lamposts are different types.     The 4 lamposts that surround the Queen Victoria monument in
the distance, can clearly be seen on this photo in the Francis Firth collection

Victoria Monument

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Heartshome said:

Hi tozzin. Sorry! but I can't see to much wrong with it. Several people are looking up at the photographer,

who is presumably up at a building window. The differing exposures are probably due to the fact that the lens

was open for a lot longer than the instant photos that we are use to now, and if it was cloudy that would

account for lack of shadow. 

I think you are right too. There is actually shadow it is going to the right. The man on the far right you can see his shadow going on to the waste land.  The long exposure would account for the blurred moving images, such as the woman and the fast moving coach behind a lamp post.  This was clearly a professional photographer, perhaps with good quality camera equipment. The stopped coach being done to allow the picture to be taken.  Clearly a Royal visit, there's even a policeman stood at the back of the carriage and possibly another further down from him. The picture looks around 1900 to me, is there any other details of the picture?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looking at the advert on the side of the building - Joshua Dyson's Dioramas and Gipsy Choir opened in the Vestry Hall, West Bar in December 1886, and continued to use that venue for their visits to Sheffield until Monday 13th October 1890 when they opened at Sanger's Circus for the first time. After departing at the end of the month, their next visit was in March 1893, again to Sanger's Circus, after which they missed Sheffield for three and a half years.  Their fifth visit to the town opened on Monday 14th September 1896 at the Albert Hall, their 6th visit in 1898 was also at the Albert Hall.  Mr Dyson died in Wetherby in December 1910, and although born in Glossop was a Sheffield man, and was buried at the General Cemetery.

This puts the date of the photograph to between late 1890 and early 1891.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's no definite date on the photograph dude, the only bit of info:  Ruben Thompsons Coach in Surrey Street prior to the construction of the Town Hall. There's some information on this Picture Sheffield photograph taken about the same time looking from the opposite direction.

https://www.picturesheffield.com/frontend.php?action=printdetails&keywords=Ref_No_increment;EQUALS;y02905&prevUrl=

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder why a section at the bottom of the photograph was cropped? 

surrey_e.jpg

🙃

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Early photo shop ?"

The image has been altered in many ways and probably on more than one or two occasions.

I would like to see the original.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It might have been a Lantern slide at one time. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, History dude said:

It might have been a Lantern slide at one time. 

Good point History dude! That would also account for any 'touching up'  for enhancement through a viewer.

Still think a lot of it is to do with time exposure as well. They did photo's a lot different to the way we do now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Heartshome said:

Good point History dude! That would also account for any 'touching up'  for enhancement through a viewer.

Still think a lot of it is to do with time exposure as well. They did photo's a lot different to the way we do now.

I don't think horses would stand stock still for a time exposure.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In 1878 (well before this photo) heat ripening of gelatin emulsions was discovered. This greatly increased sensitivity and made possible very short "snapshot" exposures. (according to Wikipedia, I am no photographer)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In between  the chap on the left and the horses there’s a blurred image of something that seems to have moved and the boy stood close to the horses on the road seems his head had moved making it slightly blurred. As for the picture being cropped that’s how it was originally sent to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The photographer was Thomas George Hibbert, carver and gilder by profession (Hibbert Brothers, Surrey Street) and a keen member of the Sheffield Photographic Society around this time.  He won numerous prizes for photography, many on glass lantern slides. In 1894 he won 1st and 2nd prize for lantern slides at the society. He demonstrated photographic techniques to members, meetings being held at the Masonic Hall, Surrey Street.

In December 1894 he gave a lecture to the society entitled "Development With The Brush" during which he "developed two negatives, showing how, by judicious use of the brush in applying various strengths of developer, a great improvement may be made in bringing out detail in heavy shadows, at the same time keeping the high lights clear".

So "yes' Tozzin, I think it is an early example of Photo Shop!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Edmund said:

The photographer was Thomas George Hibbert, carver and gilder by profession (Hibbert Brothers, Surrey Street) and a keen member of the Sheffield Photographic Society around this time.  He won numerous prizes for photography, many on glass lantern slides. In 1894 he won 1st and 2nd prize for lantern slides at the society. He demonstrated photographic techniques to members, meetings being held at the Masonic Hall, Surrey Street.

In December 1894 he gave a lecture to the society entitled "Development With The Brush" during which he "developed two negatives, showing how, by judicious use of the brush in applying various strengths of developer, a great improvement may be made in bringing out detail in heavy shadows, at the same time keeping the high lights clear".

So "yes' Tozzin, I think it is an early example of Photo Shop!

If like I suspect that it has been manipulated Mr Hibbert has done a good job in what was an experimental period in photography, well researched Edmund.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not really "Photo shop" which literally means adding things or taking away things not on the original picture.  More like photo enhancement. Though by that time there was photo fakes around, but these were done to make people believe that things were present, when of course they were not - ghosts or fairies for example.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

‘The camera never lies’ - has been a lie pretty much since photography was invented. Like History Dude said, maybe enhanced?

I think its just an old photo taken on old equipment.

The focus is on the carriage, so not surprised that everything else isn’t as sharp.

There is another photo on here of Queen Victorias visit to a steelworks that was clearly  ‘touched up’

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, SteveHB said:

surr_st_e_col.jpg

Now that brings a bit of life to the photo. Strangely enough the corners and subsequent crossing of Surrey Street and Norfolk Street were hotly contested by the “ crossing sweepers “ who earned a few pence sweeping horse droppings and other detritus so ladies wouldn’t soil their dress hems after a night’s entertainment at the Music Hall after enjoying , an opera, a recital or a dramatisation of A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens. 
The crossing sweepers very often came to blows if someone tried to work their patch.
 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 06/08/2022 at 12:07, History dude said:

I think you are right too. There is actually shadow it is going to the right. The man on the far right you can see his shadow going on to the waste land.  The long exposure would account for the blurred moving images, such as the woman and the fast moving coach behind a lamp post.  This was clearly a professional photographer, perhaps with good quality camera equipment. The stopped coach being done to allow the picture to be taken.  Clearly a Royal visit, there's even a policeman stood at the back of the carriage and possibly another further down from him. The picture looks around 1900 to me, is there any other details of the picture?  

 

I'm not sure that's right tbh...I think we have an amalgam of more than one photograph, as has been pointed out the shadows give it away.

I think the stopped coach has been taken from another photograph on different exposure settings at a different time, it has then been cut out and pasted onto the general scene and rephotographed. Horses do not stay absolutely still for long, for the horses to be that pin sharp it had to be taken with a fast shutter speed and yet the woman near the building with the sheffield sign is clearly moving... suggesting a slow shutter speed. In my darkroom days it was not difficult to do it.

    I heve a few large original photos from the first world war... the large original that the parent's would have, would have buttons, badges and braid hand touched in, you can actually feel the pigment standing proud from the surface of the picture when it's out of the frame, it would then be rephotographed for the smaller cheaper ones to give to other family and friends.

   These photos were often made into postcards to make money, I would not be surprised to see the same coach and horses scene cropping up (if you'll pardon the pun) on scenes purporting to be 'The Royal Carriage' in a host of other places.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 07/08/2022 at 19:59, SteveHB said:

surr_st_e_col.jpg

Now that brings a bit of life to the photo.
 

I think most of us on this thread will agree the photo has been improved but what fascinates me is the collection of posters and flyers on the gable end of houses on the left. If only they would be readable when enlarged.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 05/08/2022 at 21:12, tozzin said:

Take a good look at the accompanying photo of  a horse and carriage on Surrey Street, the horses, carriage, people looking look strangely very sharp focus, strange shadows from the onlookers, the carriage but the two leading horses are bereft of shadows. The surrounding street isn’t as sharp , the spare land on the left is lacking contrast as are the buildings on what was Fargate in the distance, seems this photo has been more constructed that just taken. The gas lamps are just paper cutouts by the look of them.
Any one see what I see?

1F13D029-D480-471E-BA36-3310ECF4A016.png

I did a cropped down version of this view, Mama and Leonies allowed me to use one of their windows. Pity about the tree blocking  the view point. 

20220810_133342.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like the lampost might still be in exactly the same positon.   Anyone remember the old gas street lights ?   There was one outside my house and I remember the man coming to light it each evening.   Must have been one of the last.    My grandfathers house also had a gas light at the top of the stairs, which still worked for a while.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...