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Local sayings from yesteryear!


peterinfrance

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What does ‘right as rain’ mean? I know that it’s supposed to mean that all is good, but it doesn’t say that to me.l

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9 minutes ago, DaveJC said:

What does ‘right as rain’ mean? I know that it’s supposed to mean that all is good, but it doesn’t say that to me.l

I would have thought that the meaning was that rain has always been good for farmers of all types and it couldn’t do no wrong as it was always welcome, so it’s the same for any person who doesn’t cause harm or destruction to anyone.

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4 hours ago, MartinR said:

Mainly due to the alliteration it seems: explanation here

Right, in the phrase " as right as rain, " originally meant straight in direction. And The Wordsworth Dictionary of Idioms ( 1993) agrees. It says as right as rain is: A pun on the original meaning of right = straight. 11.

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@peterinfrance That doesn't quite tie up with the precursor phrases such as "right as my leg" or "right as adamant".  The earliest attested quotation from the OED is 1891 (the Quinion/Childs piece cited above only mentions 1909).  OED also cites the Chaucer quote: "Right as an Adamaund I wys Can drawen to hym sotylly The Iren" [right as an adamant I know can draw to him subtly (ie unexplained) the iron] of c.1400, attested 1425.  Note that here adamant is being used as an alternative name for lodestone [magnetic iron oxide] rather than for its hardness.

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@Lysanderix Another non-Sheffield expression I'm afraid.  "As smooth as a die" comes from 1530, and from smooth and flat ("Ye tide was out all upon the sands at Least a mile, wch was as smooth as a Die") comes straight by 1878.

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That’s a pity .Martin. I had long believed the expression of a persons integrity had come from the need for a pair of drop stamp dies to fit “straight” and in line in order to function correctly.😗

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This was South Yorkshire rather than Sheffield but I still smile when the clock is at ten minutes to ten, this is known as ‘Cowboy Time’

Tentotentotentotentoten

OK I’ll get mi coat.

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31 minutes ago, DaveJC said:

This was South Yorkshire rather than Sheffield but I still smile when the clock is at ten minutes to ten, this is known as ‘Cowboy Time’

Tentotentotentotentoten

OK I’ll get mi coat.

That's almost as bad as the Lone Ranger seen carrying a bag of rubbish.

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11 minutes ago, Hopman said:

That's almost as bad as the Lone Ranger seen carrying a bag of rubbish.

You’ll not get around me with compliments.

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Though not really a saying, both my parents always used the 19th century term when telling the time which was, five and twenty past or five and twenty to, while I always said twenty five to and twenty five past, I suppose my grandparents both used the 19th century time telling as their parents did.

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@tozzin - not particularly Sheffield, it was pretty common in the generation that grew up between the wars.  My Mum certainly used that system (b. 1923), so not C19 specifically, and I often heard it from the "old 'uns" when growing up.  There was a report, I think last year, that some schools are replacing their dial clocks with digital ones in exam rooms.  Evidently the rising generation are more used to digital displays and have problems with a dial.

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7 hours ago, MartinR said:

@tozzin - not particularly Sheffield, it was pretty common in the generation that grew up between the wars.  My Mum certainly used that system (b. 1923), so not C19 specifically, and I often heard it from the "old 'uns" when growing up.  There was a report, I think last year, that some schools are replacing their dial clocks with digital ones in exam rooms.  Evidently the rising generation are more used to digital displays and have problems with a dial.

The five and twenty to was indeed used by my parents up to their deaths, dad in 1966 and mom in 1972 but it was a reminder of when timekeeping was very important when timepieces were invented not just the 19th century as I stated, I only said 19th century because that’s when my grandparents were born.

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If someone was a bit useless at mending things etc, they were “Cac Handed” and if someone walked with their feet  turned slightly inward they were “ Twiddley Toe’d” , if they’d add feet that were turned outwards , they invariably had “ Five To One “ feet.

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Cack-handed

Another one where a trip to the OED is illuminating.  (The earliest documented use of the word is in 1854 in a glossary of Northamptonshire  words.   Variants: cag-, kack-, keck-handed.

Cack

The story starts with Latin: cacare = "to void excrement".  From this there are Dutch, german and Polish equivalents: cacken, kakken, kacken and kakati.  In recorded English the first use was in the mid-C15, with a nice example from William Caxton: "One that cacked golde".  However in Old English (aka Anglo-Saxon) there is recorded the term "cac-hus" for a latrine.

Variant form: crap

Both words are marked as "Obsolete or dialect".  On a personal note, "cack" was regarded as very naughty (to an 8 year old) in 1960s Black Country.

Khaki

I've always wondered about this word and it's connection to cack.  There's no documented connection in the OED, khaki comes from Urdu "dusty".  Given the common exchange of meanings between "earth", "mud", "bog", "mire" and similar words however I suspect it's that there is a common PIE root.

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9 minutes ago, MartinR said:

Cack-handed

Another one where a trip to the OED is illuminating.  (The earliest documented use of the word is in 1854 in a glossary of Northamptonshire  words.   Variants: cag-, kack-, keck-handed.

Cack

The story starts with Latin: cacare = "to void excrement".  From this there are Dutch, german and Polish equivalents: cacken, kakken, kacken and kakati.  In recorded English the first use was in the mid-C15, with a nice example from William Caxton: "One that cacked golde".  However in Old English (aka Anglo-Saxon) there is recorded the term "cac-hus" for a latrine.

Variant form: crap

Both words are marked as "Obsolete or dialect".  On a personal note, "cack" was regarded as very naughty (to an 8 year old) in 1960s Black Country.

Khaki

I've always wondered about this word and it's connection to cack.  There's no documented connection in the OED, khaki comes from Urdu "dusty".  Given the common exchange of meanings between "earth", "mud", "bog", "mire" and similar words however I suspect it's that there is a common PIE root.

Cacare "to avoid excrement" Cac is the Irish word for S**t 

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I shoul have mentioned why cack-handed = left-handed.  Historically, when hand-washing was less common, the rule was to use the left hand for "personal cleaning" and the right for feeding.  You still see this in Middle-Eastern culture where you only eat using the right hand.  Hence is someone was using his left hand it was his "cack" hand.

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4 hours ago, MartinR said:

I shoul have mentioned why cack-handed = left-handed.  Historically, when hand-washing was less common, the rule was to use the left hand for "personal cleaning" and the right for feeding.  You still see this in Middle-Eastern culture where you only eat using the right hand.  Hence is someone was using his left hand it was his "cack" hand.

I recall "cack-handed" being used to mean "clumsy" and, less frequently "left-handed" - for which my parents used the term "keggy-handed", which is doubtless etymologically connected.

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On 16/08/2021 at 10:11, MartinR said:

 I think last year, that some schools are replacing their dial clocks with digital ones in exam rooms.  Evidently the rising generation are more used to digital displays and have problems with a dial.

Schools are supposed to teach things to children. Then bluddy well teach them analogue time. 

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It occurred to me today, as I mentioned to Mrs. Athy that she'd left the door "staring wide open", that this was another expression which I learned from my parents. Was it particular to them, was it common Sheffield usage, or is/was it used outside the area?

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4 minutes ago, Athy said:

It occurred to me today, as I mentioned to Mrs. Athy that she'd left the door "staring wide open", that this was another expression which I learned from my parents. Was it particular to them, was it common Sheffield usage, or is/was it used outside the area?

I’ve never heard that expression before, but it’s brilliant, door wide open just like, with their mouth agape.

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