Sheffield History Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Does anyone have any other information or ideally a photo of The Bacchus Public House on Holly Lane in Sheffield City Centre? (between the back of Sheffield City Hall and West Street) As you can see by the auction poster the Jolly Bacchus Pub and outbuildings were auctioned off in 1870 and I wondered what Holly Lane would have looked like back then The poster reads: Valuable freehold premises in Holly Street and Holly Lane to be sold by auction, by Messrs W. H. and J. A. Eadon at their auction mart, St James’ Street, Sheffield, on Thursday, October 20, 1870 at four o’clock in the afternoon, by order of the Devisees in Trust under the will of the elate Mr Joseph Bendelow, subject to the conditions of sale - the public House with the yard and outbuildings thereto, known by the sign of The Jolly Bacchus. Situate in Holly Lane, Sheffield, in the occupation of Messrs Williams Greaves and Co., or their undertenants, as yearly tenants; and eight messuages or tenements, with a warehouse and other buildings, two of the houses being used as retail shops, and fronting to and being Nos 34 and 38 in Holly Street, Sheffield, and in the respective occupations of Messrs Wood and Furguson, and the others being in the yard behind, and in the respective occupations of Messrs Fowler, Osborn, Underwood, and Large, and comprising the premises whereon the late Mr Joseph Bendelow carried on for many years the business of a plasterer and whitewasher. The site of the whole of the premises, which extend from Holly Street to Holly Lane, contains 482 superficial square yards or thereabouts. Further particulars may be obtained from the auctioneers; or from Messrs Brown and Son, solicitors, 1 St James Street, Sheffield. J. M. Jubb, Printer, Prior Court, High Street, Sheffield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tozzin Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Entries from the 1862 Directory showing a Mr Joseph Bendelow living at Spring Terrace Ecclesfield. Seems Holly Lane was curtailed by 1879 to just four properties, more investigation needed. ENTRIES FROM 1862 DIRECTORY ECCLESFIELD, &c. 5 Bendelow Mr. Joseph, Spring terrace ============================== Holly Street. 5 Rowbotham Joseph, victualler., King William 11 Whittles Wm. and Son, surgical instrument manufacturers 13 Hudson T ., brass founder 15 Molloy Thos., clothes dlr 17 Holbrook Thos., shopkeeper 21 Mahony Josh., brush maker 23 Darley Ellen, shopkeeper 25 Marsden John, beerhouse 29 Harrison Thomas, victualler., Crown 31 Coulson, Jukes, & Co., · merchants 31 Barker and Co.; merchant 55 King George, beerhouse 57 Ashley Wm., shopkeeper 67 Marshall Thos., butcher 6 Chester Bros., horn merchants 10 Watson Henry., bone cutter 12 Furniss Arthur, Britannia metal ware manufacturers 18 Marples Thomas, victualler., Red Lion 26 Routh Mark, tailor 28 Briggs Wm., news agent 36 Underwood Henry Jas., engine turner 36 Foster Allen, chaser 38 Flanagan T., clothes broker 40 Wright Wm., plumber 40 Hancock J., silver plater 44 Merrill John & Co., horn merchants 54 Binney Samuel, anvil manufacturers 56 Boaler Thomas & Henry, spring makers 66 Darley Wm., beerhouse 68 Mackenzie William A., mattress maker =============================================== 1879 HOLLY LANE. {51 West street.) 7 Presland John, painter ...... West Street lane ... 19 Taylor Joseph, beerhouse 45 ,Wild James, cart owner DIVISION STREET 4 Staniforth & Re, slaters HOLLY STREET. (23 Pinfold street.) 1 Broadhembury 'Thos. (j) carter 3 Hill Wm. & Son, scale pressers 5 Pendleton & Merrill, electroplaters. &c Court 1 Bow street 13 Green George, picture frame maker '15 Barker Wm. venetian blind manufacturers 17 Beardshaw Wm. C. engraver, &c Yard Court 3 21 Unwin James, greengrocer 23 Mahony Joshua& Sons, brush manufacturers Courts 5 and 7 27 Crapper Samuel, shopkeeper 31 Vivian H.H.& Co. German. silver. manufacturers Orchard lane 33 Holland Joseph, victualler 39 Barker & Co. steel converters and refiners 47 Andrews Edward, police constable 49 Merrin Joseph, police sergeant Court 9- 2 Needham Chas. police constable 3 Thornhill Reuben, police constable 4 Horne Fredk. police constable 51 Olivent Thomas, police constable 53 Meggitt George, police constable Balm green 55 Jackson Edward, beerhouse 57 Burley John (woodturner) Court 11 67 Bancroft William M. lodgings Barker's pool 6 Jennings Edward, table knife manufacturers, Holly Street works Boot Andrew, spring knife mfr. do Mettam William, woodturner, do Revill John, plate finisher, do 10 Winterbottom & Thompson, bone cutters West street 18 Langworth Mrs Ann, victualler 26 Smith Edmund, newsagent West Street lane Marsden Chas. & Son, paper manufacturers 188 Rusby Henry, manager 36 Round Edwin & Son (lim.), electro 38 Pearson & Co. printers, &c 40 Longthorne William, provision dealer 40t Hancock James, electro plater, &c ( the number is 40 and a half) 44-6 Merrill Jno. &Co. horn, &c. manufacturers 48 :Mills John, table knife manufacturers 50 Ibbotson Robert, ivory merchant. do 50 Hurt Samuel. spring knife mfr. do 50B Hulley George, steel fork mfr. do 54: Harrison William, ivory carver 54 Bright Joe & Co. cutlery manufacturers 54 Crossland John, spring knife, &c. merchant 54 Morton Francis J. engraver Crowther Elias, scissors grinder 54 Leesley Thomas, ivory carver 56 Kilner Bros. cutlery manufacturers electroplated ware, &c. manufacturers 62 Brooke T. -& J. ivory, &c. turners 62-4 Goodacre Thomas, electro-plated ware 'manufacturers 64 Stephenson Geo. spring knife manufacturers' 64 Hague Thomas, pen, &c. knife manufacturers 64 Snowden George, carver, &0 64 Brownhill Edward. table knife hafter 64-6 Wolstenholme Wm. B. scale cutter 68 McKenzie William, paperhanger 70 Terry Stephen, shopkeeper Division street Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveHB Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Jolly Bacchus (beerhouse) 1871 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tozzin Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Seems the late Mr Bendelow may have known Mr Joseph Taylor because they both had similar addresses i.e.Spring Lane one lived in Ecclesfield and the other in Ecclesall. With them both having interests around Holly Street they most probably ran in to each other at time to time. TAYLOR, Joseph (Qualifying property, House). Address: Spring Lane, Ecclesall in 1855. Recorded in: Sheffield Burgess Rolls. TAYLOR, Joseph (Qualifying property, House). Address: Holly Lane, Sheffield in 1864-65. Recorded in: Sheffield Burgess Rolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmund Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Mr Bendelow was trading as a plasterer etc as early as 1825 (working from Green Lane). He retired in March 1858, and his nephews John and Joseph Raper took over the business, continuing to trade from 36 Holly Street. He retired to "The Hirst" at Wadsley Bridge (also called "Top Hirst" and "Hirst Spring Terrace" and "Spring-Terrace, the Hirst") with his wife Mary. In 1864 he suffered vandalism - on three occasions someone broke a couple of decoratives urns in his front garden. He died aged 72 on 7th November 1869, still owning the property at Holly Street - the pub, 2 shops, 6 houses, a warehouse and yard - total 482 square yards - hence the auction flyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leksand Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 14 hours ago, Sheffield History said: Does anyone have any other information or ideally a photo of The Bacchus Public House on Holly Lane in Sheffield City Centre? (between the back of Sheffield City Hall and West Street) As you can see by the auction poster the Jolly Bacchus Pub and outbuildings were auctioned off in 1870 and I wondered what Holly Lane would have looked like back then The poster reads: Valuable freehold premises in Holly Street and Holly Lane to be sold by auction, by Messrs W. H. and J. A. Eadon at their auction mart, St James’ Street, Sheffield, on Thursday, October 20, 1870 at four o’clock in the afternoon, by order of the Devisees in Trust under the will of the elate Mr Joseph Bendelow, subject to the conditions of sale - the public House with the yard and outbuildings thereto, known by the sign of The Jolly Bacchus. Situate in Holly Lane, Sheffield, in the occupation of Messrs Williams Greaves and Co., or their undertenants, as yearly tenants; and eight messuages or tenements, with a warehouse and other buildings, two of the houses being used as retail shops, and fronting to and being Nos 34 and 38 in Holly Street, Sheffield, and in the respective occupations of Messrs Wood and Furguson, and the others being in the yard behind, and in the respective occupations of Messrs Fowler, Osborn, Underwood, and Large, and comprising the premises whereon the late Mr Joseph Bendelow carried on for many years the business of a plasterer and whitewasher. The site of the whole of the premises, which extend from Holly Street to Holly Lane, contains 482 superficial square yards or thereabouts. Further particulars may be obtained from the auctioneers; or from Messrs Brown and Son, solicitors, 1 St James Street, Sheffield. J. M. Jubb, Printer, Prior Court, High Street, Sheffield. It was a beerhouse (on licensed) at the time of the auction referenced and until it's demise. I can't say definitively what happened to the licence at present (it falls within ongoing research), but can suggest a probable chain of events. The long term licensee left in 1880 and is known to have run other premises after that date. It is likely that he transfered out close to the time the property came up for let in the middle of the year, however, by September, when fixtures and fittings were advertised for sale, he was named as seller. The sale in itself doesn't necesarily indicate closure (indeed it could suggest transfer), however, the timing infers that the licence would have lapsed if the former landlord was at another premises by that time (which does seem probable). This wouldn't prevent a future grant to a prospective occupant, although the timeframe would be limited, but it would significantly increase the jeopardy for an incoming tenant at a time when reduction of licences was a popular aim in magistrates' circles. I would hope to clarify the picture in the next few months. Whatever it's status at the end of 1880, the Jolly Bacchus was gone by the turn of the century and an odd little quirk in surviving documents (seemingly the consequence of a transcription error between two long lost documents) probably shifts that barrier back another 8 to 10 years. I haven't investigated the building to date, but I think the chances of finding a photo of it in operation as a beerhouse are slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leksand Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 On 19/01/2021 at 21:25, leksand said: It was a beerhouse (on licensed) at the time of the auction referenced and until it's demise. I can't say definitively what happened to the licence at present (it falls within ongoing research), but can suggest a probable chain of events. The long term licensee left in 1880 and is known to have run other premises after that date. It is likely that he transfered out close to the time the property came up for let in the middle of the year, however, by September, when fixtures and fittings were advertised for sale, he was named as seller. The sale in itself doesn't necesarily indicate closure (indeed it could suggest transfer), however, the timing infers that the licence would have lapsed if the former landlord was at another premises by that time (which does seem probable). This wouldn't prevent a future grant to a prospective occupant, although the timeframe would be limited, but it would significantly increase the jeopardy for an incoming tenant at a time when reduction of licences was a popular aim in magistrates' circles. I would hope to clarify the picture in the next few months. Whatever it's status at the end of 1880, the Jolly Bacchus was gone by the turn of the century and an odd little quirk in surviving documents (seemingly the consequence of a transcription error between two long lost documents) probably shifts that barrier back another 8 to 10 years. I haven't investigated the building to date, but I think the chances of finding a photo of it in operation as a beerhouse are slim. A little update on the above. Although definitive evidence remains to be found the scenario outlined still appears the most likely chain of events. One element of speculation can be discounted however, namely the suggested transcription error between two documents. Investigation since the last post has significantly clarified the manner in which magistates' records would have been kept and a more likely cause for the quirk mentioned before has become evident. Moreover, it is, if correct, suggestive in some manner that the Jolly Bacchus did close in the era indicated above. Another beerhouse, that holds an ananomolous location in one surviving record (it is placed where you would expect to find the Jolly Bacchus recorded had it survived) seems to have been quite volatile and, it would appear, exhausted the space allocated for recording its details. Subsequently, the largely void record of the defunct Jolly Bacchus (probably containing details of only one licensee and owner) would have been reallocated for overflow purposes, thus unexpectedly preserving the 'slot' of the Jolly Bacchus in later records whilst leaving an alternative allocation (expected from process modelling to be active) as a ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tozzin Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 I cant find any references to the Jolly Bacchus BUT here's the only list of residents on Holly Lane in 1879 7. John Presland Painter 19. Joseph Taylor Beerhouse (The Jolly Bacchus was at No 19 ) 45. James Wild Cart Owner 1856 21. Ellen Grinold Beerhouse ( could this be the Jolly Bacchus? the number could have been changed later.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leksand Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 1 hour ago, tozzin said: I cant find any references to the Jolly Bacchus BUT here's the only list of residents on Holly Lane in 1879 7. John Presland Painter 19. Joseph Taylor Beerhouse (The Jolly Bacchus was at No 19 ) 45. James Wild Cart Owner 1856 21. Ellen Grinold Beerhouse ( could this be the Jolly Bacchus? the number could have been changed later.) It appears as both #19 & 21. I haven't checked any 1856 listings but that should be it (although may have been named differently, if named, at that time). The numbering on Holly Lane does not appear to follow normal standards as the beerhouse seems to have been situated between Holly Ln & Carver Ln. It had a large yard, seemingly contained and the house itself possibly sat within the yard. There are quite stong indications that under Taylor it operated as something of an enclave, entirely under its own jurisdiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tozzin Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 By 1901 the Lane was occupied with just different firms producing their goods, no private dwellings or pubs / beer houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tozzin Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Ive just been searching the 1787 Sheffield Directory and I cant find Holly Lane mentioned anywhere, not named ? just a general route? but what I did find on Burgess Street was a victualler by the name of Joseph Duckenfield, now could this chap be Claude Duckenfield's grandfather? Claude is better known as W.C. Fields, I know Claude's father and uncle were comb makers working in Back Lane and living in the Barkers Pool area before they emigrated to the U.S.A. Its only a thought on my part but Duckenfield is rare name in that area so surely Joseph Duckenfield IS a relative of W.C. Fields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardS Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 I think his grandparents were George and Hannah, maybe an uncle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tozzin Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 hour ago, RichardS said: I think his grandparents were George and Hannah, maybe an uncle? No I don’t think it was his uncle, he would have been in to his late nineties when Claude was born in Darby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leksand Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 On 16/10/2021 at 13:52, tozzin said: By 1901 the Lane was occupied with just different firms producing their goods, no private dwellings or pubs / beer houses. Well, you may be correct but that is not information that you can draw from the 1901 directory (which I'd wager is your source). Heads of household for purely residential properties were not generally listed at that time - instances were growing but it remained far from the norm. Also, substantial numbers of on-licensed beerhouses did not receive a listing as such in directories whilst for a large proportion of off-licensed beerhouses you will not find any indication that they were beer retailers at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tozzin Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 I still think the area of Holly Lane had lost residential homes by 1901 and had turned into a cutlery and engineering area. But going on your idea of not all heads of households were not generally listed , now if that was true, why is every other household in the 1901 directory has a head of house listed? Holly Lane was less than 75 yards long so it’s probable that ALL residential properties had been utilised for production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leksand Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 19 hours ago, tozzin said: I still think the area of Holly Lane had lost residential homes by 1901 and had turned into a cutlery and engineering area. But going on your idea of not all heads of households were not generally listed , now if that was true, why is every other household in the 1901 directory has a head of house listed? Holly Lane was less than 75 yards long so it’s probable that ALL residential properties had been utilised for production. With regard to Holly Lane, I might have been inclined to think similarly. However, it would appear from FMP that six properties had some form of occupation on census night 1901. The head of house of "every other houshold" is most certainly not listed in the 1901 directory - how many court listings do you see in there? Suburban journeymen were not as significant an element of the population as you might believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tozzin Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Courts are only listed as 2,3 etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tozzin Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Could the public house on this insurance map marked with an “X” be what was the Jolly Bacchus?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveHB Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 hour ago, tozzin said: Could the public house on this insurance map marked with an “X” be what was the Jolly Bacchus?. No, that is the Manchester Arms/Hotel C.1890 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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