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Then you haven't read James Burke's Book The Day The Universe Changed. :rolleyes:

I have read this book actually, and seen the 1980's TV series he did of it.

The book is subtitled "A Personal View by James Burke" which says a lot, - the author is NOT claiming it is an AUTHORITIVE work but rather that it is his PERSONAL VIEW, so it may be biased or contain bits of information people may not agree on.

James Burke does not claim to be a scientist. His education and degree is in, I think, languages not sciences. He came to be interested in sciences when he was a TV presenter working on Tomorrows World and then doing reporting on the Apollo moon landings. he would probably describe himself as a TV presenter / reporter / celebrity.

He has produced a lot of stuff on science, particularly the history of it and how it has developed due to his obvious interest in it. He is a clever, well educated man but his science is informal. He is what you would call a "so called scientist"

The book you quote is of this type (history of science) and rather than attempt to belittle science as you imply contrary to this it marvels in science, - in its achievements and how it has enabled mankind to reach ever higher goals (like the moon landings). It may point out the misunderstandings and difficulties encountered on the way but overall it is very positive about science, its methodology, its achievements and the "truth" about the university it offers us with the possibility of taking all of this to even greater levels in the future.

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Much of it boils down to money. Many scientists work in labs connected to university. If the university doesn't surport what they do funding will stop. In the west the "occult" investigation by science is frownd upon. So a scientist putting effort into proving that a medium is talking to a ghost, wouldn't be in work long.

Correct!

I do agree with you here.

Scientific research is a long, slow, laborious and EXPENSIVE process.

Most research money comes from big companies who have a vested interest in developing something new with the sole outcome of marketing it to make a profit. That's how business works.

When I was at University in the 1970's most research was into semiconductors to produce new smaller, faster, better and more reliable microelectronic circuits. This eventually produced the modern "computer boom" and paid off highly to companies like IBM that had invested in research at the time. As a chemist the "smart money" for research was in liquid crystals (again for electronics), pharmaceuticals and oil based research into fuel efficiency and exhaust cleanliness. All of these have found their place in the modern world giving us a better standard of living.

Now, if a group of paranormal investigators want to get together and offer a university lab a few £-million to investigate and research what mediums can and can't do I am sure they would do it.

But even then it would be doubtful if any results would have any significance in terms of improving the quality of our lives.

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The last point "It is a tried and tested system and it works."

Not always.

Well let's put it this way.

If ever I am on trial for something in a court of law being judged by a jury of "12 good upstanding men of the community"

I sincerely hope that those Jurors will use the scientific methodology used by scientists, historians, lawyers and anyone else with any sense.

That is, I hope they will collect all the evidence, consider it carefully, piece it together logically and attempt to work out what actually happened (ie the truth) before passing any judgement on me.

What I would hate is for them to judge and condenmn me first and then reinterpret the evidence in such a way that it was made to fit their own personal preconceived ideas about me.

OK, the legal system makes mistakes as well, because like scientists the jury is made up of humans. But they are required to do their job in the way I would prefer because, - it is a sound, logical, tried and tested system, and it works!

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One scientists developed a test to prove the speed of light theory. 186 thousand miles per sec... The test proved it did. Then another came up with a better test and proved it didn't.

I don't hear of anyone saying that the speed of light is not 186..... Have you ;-)

The speed of light (the constant "c") is 186,325 miles per second in a vacuum.

No scientist would ever say that as the metric system is always used in science and not Imperial British units because science is International (implying that all countries and cultures appreciate the real value science has to offer).

The speed of light is 300,000,000 metres per second in a vacuum

It is a CONSTANT, it is invariable in the same medium (a vacuum)

However, when light passes through different mediums (transparent materials such as air, glass, water, clear plastics) it's speed changes, - it slows down.

This is why light is refracted when it passes from one material to another and its reduction in speed can be calculated quite easily from the materials measured refractive index.

So who was this other scientist who says it was something different?

I don't think it was.

The whole of Einsteins theory of relativity is based upon the constancy of the speed of light.

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History dude

The whole of Einsteins theory of relativity is based upon the constancy of the speed of light.

It is only a theory! Some would say a good one, but others find holes in it.

I've seen a few Horizon's, I think that's where I recall seeing the speed of light test thing, there was one I think it was about Quantom physics? Which stated that Einstein didn't except something or other and he was proved wrong, because computers wouldn't function without it.

Another program on him said he believed that God had created the universe. Which apart from your self most scientists would not agree with, unless Dawkin's didn't go to Oxbridge to get his degree, for you to prove his TV show was all wrong.

But then like most laymen I could be wrong. Funny how boffins don't like to think they are wrong.

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It is only a theory! Some would say a good one, but others find holes in it.

I've seen a few Horizon's, I think that's where I recall seeing the speed of light test thing, there was one I think it was about Quantom physics? Which stated that Einstein didn't except something or other and he was proved wrong, because computers wouldn't function without it.

Another program on him said he believed that God had created the universe. Which apart from your self most scientists would not agree with, unless Dawkin's didn't go to Oxbridge to get his degree, for you to prove his TV show was all wrong.

But then like most laymen I could be wrong. Funny how boffins don't like to think they are wrong.

But then of course Dawkins only has a theory, he can't prove what he says is correct.

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I've seen a few Horizon's, I think that's where I recall seeing the speed of light test thing, there was one I think it was about Quantom physics? Which stated that Einstein didn't except something or other and he was proved wrong, because computers wouldn't function without it.

Einstein has 2 theories of relativity called the general theory and the special theory which are on linked but somewhat different areas.

Although the theories touch on quantum mechanics Einstein did not have that much to do with it, other than giving light a quantum in the form of the photon particle (is light a wave or a particle?) Most Quantum mechanical work was done by scientists like Max Planck, Niels Bohr, Louis De Broglie, Werner Heisenberg, Erwin Schrodinger, Wolfgang Pauli and Paul Dirac.

Modern electronics (computers) work using the properties of electrons which due to their size behave at a quantum mechanical level (are they particles or waves?). Some electronic devices use Quantum energy levels of electrons to function, for example the quantum photoelectric effect where a photon of light can knock electrons off a metal surface is used in all photoelectric cells and digital imaging devices (cameras) while the quantum tunneling effct is used in semiconductor devices, most notably the "tunnel diode" which takes it's name from how it works.

It's not so much that modern computers shouldn't work because of quantum mechanics, it's more that they can't work without quantum mechanics.

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Another program on him said he believed that God had created the universe. Which apart from your self most scientists would not agree with.

I didn't say I believed in God, - read my post #100 again.

I work with a lot of people that are scientists. They all have their own beliefs as it is a personal thing anyway. However I wouldn't want to bet on "most scientist would not agree...".

Scientists come from every walk of life and their range of experiences and beliefs is vast, they are all individuals with their own ideas and opinions, they are after all, ordinary people that do a certain job. Yes they make mistakes, they have lives and interests outside of their work and they do the same sort of things that everyone else does.

What they don't do is blindly believe any idea that is put in front of them without proof, nor do they have their own hidden agenda where they make things up to suit themselves and put it about as "the scientists beliefs"

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... unless Dawkin's didn't go to Oxbridge to get his degree, for you to prove his TV show was all wrong.

But then like most laymen I could be wrong. Funny how boffins don't like to think they are wrong.

I think Bayleaf has already answered this one.

Dawkins is well qualified and respected.

Like me, you, and everyone else, he too is entitled to his own point of view and beliefs so I don't see what the issue is here.

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History dude

I did see one boffin on a TV prog saying that Albert E said this "thing" (which I can't remember the name of) which is I said essential to the operation of computers, could not be there. And yet it is.

Dawkin's theory was arrived at by the same methods which you quoted. Because I assume he works like that.

But the fact could be that DaveH in a future life is a female wanting an abortion, who is blocked from doing so and develops a cancer (say) from something in this life he has a scientist helped developed. Dying from the one of the few cancers that science hasn't found a cure for, but does shortly after her death.

Of course in that life it will be just a part of life perhaps to many making it seem a pointless one too, till they explain why in the life review after her death.

This type of thing is happening all the time, even if somebody can't find a science for it.

Anyway I think that's exhusted this subject for now.

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Anyway I think that's exhusted this subject for now.

I thoroughly agree with you on this point History dude.

We are way off topic and all this just starting to get a bit silly.

As the topic is supposed to be about Sheffield ghosts and haunted places perhaps some new posts on this are needed now.

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But then of course Dawkins only has a theory, he can't prove what he says is correct.

As it happens,

Richard Dawkins will be at Sheffield University on Monday (24 January 2011) at the "SCIENCE LIVE" event, along with several other celebrity scientists like Dr. Robert Winston.

It is aimed at school students doing GCSE sciences but thinking of moving on to A-level or college courses in it.

Unfortunately it is a ticket only, and practically all have been issued, as intended to local schools.

Even more unfortunately, I will not be going with a group of kids from our school, - someone else has already claimed that one!

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  • 8 months later...

There were reported manifestations of ghosts at Brincliffe Art College. In the 1930s a master at the Bluecoat School, Mr Nicholson, gassed himself in a fit of depression when he discovered he was losing his sight. His ghost, described as a tall thin man in a grey suit, has been seen and felt on many occasions. Encounters on the stairs with an unseen presence brushing past, slamming doors and the sound of footsteps when the building is apparently empty have all been reported over the years. More bizarre sightings, including a man wearing gaiters and the vision of a group of small boys in full Bluecoat uniform filing along the upstairs corridor.

Brincliffe.htm

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  • 4 months later...
Guest little girl

hi,

i do know that Manor logde is said to be hanted by Mary Qween of scots and i did go there when i was younger i looked on the grounds of manor lodge and i did see something moving in the turret house in one of the floors i did feel there was something there with me so i think thats one hanted place :rolleyes: kk mate hope you find this info useful .

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Guest whyme

I like to tell you about the house I and my family live in, First of all I will tell you the little bit of the back ground of the house before I get on with the story.

The old guy next door has lived in that house since it was first built in the 1930s and he told us that the first family that lived here lost the man of the house when he was killed in the city centre during the blitz and his wife died of a heart attack in the 1960s in the front bed room that is now the room of myself and my wife. the house was gutted by fire in the late 70s for which there has never been an explanation for and the last person to live here was an old alcoholic woman that died of some sort of liver problem (not sure what the liver problem was) and she also died in the front bedroom in her sleep and was undiscovered for almost 2 weeks but none of this we know until about six months ago

when I started to look in to the houses history. Now I think that's enough of the history of the house so I will get on with the story.

We moved in the house in December 2009 when we got the keys I moved in first so that I could get the work done that needed to be done without having to keep going between here and the old house ready for the rest of the family to move in.The first night I worked up until about 12.30am when I decide to get my head down and try to sleep but just as I was nodding of the bedroom door opened so I thought I must not have shut it properly so I shut it again and checked this time to make sure that it was shut properly. About 4am I woke to find the door open so I decide that it had to be a faulty latch so I decide that it was a job for later in the day.

I went to fix the lock before dinner but found to my surprise that there was nothing wrong with it. I soon forgot about it and got on with my work. Nothing happened again until the following day. The new carpets that my wife had carefully chosen arrived in the morning and I got to work fitting them I started with the bedrooms and worked my way down the stairs, when I reached the bottom I decide to have a coffee before I did the hall way because I had worked up quiet a thirst by this time and I left my tools at the bottom of the stairs. After about 30mins or so I went back to do the hallway but the hammer that I know for a fact left on the bottom stair was gone. I found it up stairs in the bathroom which unnerved me because I had not done anything in there and I know that none of my tools had been in there.

My wife arrived later that day and I told her I think there is something wrong with this house and I told her what had happened with the hammer but she just laughed and I think I would have if somebody had told me the same thing and she just said that I must have been in there for some reason and left the hammer in the bath and just forgot. Anyway the rest moved in and nothing else happened for about 3 months when one night we had a few friends around when one went to the toilet and when she came down she said who's the funny guy that banged on the door while she was peeing but nobody had gone up stairs and she was alone up there the whole time. It was then that my wife and myself know we may have a problem.

Well to cut a very long story short we have had things thrown at us(but only small things like coins) and we have heard things we cannot explain and we have seen strange lights that only last for seconds and we she movement out of the corners of our eyes and things get moved to places we did not leave them. My youngest son saw an old lady walk into our bedroom and two friends have seen and heard things.

A lot of you wont believe this story and I don't blame you one bit because if somebody had told me this story before we moved in this house I may not have believed it but I know its true and so does the rest of the family and so do some friends.

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SteveHB

A lot of you wont believe this story

I do, and thank you for sharing your experience .

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ukelele lady

Oh dear, I wish I hadn't read that. :unsure:

I know someone with the same sort of problem, at first I believed then I thought no , there's an

explanation to everything. Now she doesn't tell me anything because she thinks I don't believe her anymore.

It's making her ill because there only seems to be her that sees these things.

She has had the church people to get involved which worked for just a few days.

Is there anything that can be done about these things , can they really move objects?

I have tried to put myself in that position where I can see these abnormal things and image how I would react.

I'd be terrified but I have heard of others saying they learn to live with it. :wacko: :ph34r:

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Guest whyme

Oh dear, I wish I hadn't read that. :unsure:

I know someone with the same sort of problem, at first I believed then I thought no , there's an

explanation to everything. Now she doesn't tell me anything because she thinks I don't believe her anymore.

It's making her ill because there only seems to be her that sees these things.

She has had the church people to get involved which worked for just a few days.

Is there anything that can be done about these things , can they really move objects?

I have tried to put myself in that position where I can see these abnormal things and image how I would react.

I'd be terrified but I have heard of others saying they learn to live with it. :wacko::ph34r:

Well its been over 2 years now and we are still not used to it yet but its just something we have to live with. Its not so much scary (well not for me anyway but my wife would disagree with me) its more annoying than anything else.

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THYLACINE

I read Whyme's post with interest. When it came to the paranormal I was always the arch cynic and sceptic.

I still don't believe in ghosts i.e. the dead appearing to, communicating with, and scaring the pants off, the living.

I now have a firm understanding of the condition and capabilities of dead people and a similar understanding of the spirit world.

My wife told me the story below and I believe every word of it. I lived in that house for 18 months before we emigrated.

I was about 12 or 13. Our house had 3 stories, then a small attic used as a storage room. All the stairs creaked but the ones up to the attic were the worst. We were playing in the attic, me, my older sister and a friend. My mum was at work, she worked shifts. It was late in the evening and there was no-one else in the house and the two outside doors were locked. My sister told us all to shush, she thought she could hear something. We all went quiet. We could hear a piano playing. There was a piano in the living room on the second floor, we opened the attic door and poked our heads out then started down the stairs very slowly. We were all shaking and trying to keep as quiet as we could but the stairs were creaking. We reached the landing and looked down the stairs, there was a light under the lounge room door and we could hear the piano playing. No one in our house could play the piano, only my dad who had died when I was 5. We were all really scared. We started down the stairs, clinging on to each other until we were right outside the door. None of us wanted to open it we just stood there shaking. Then we heard the piano lid slam shut and the light went out.

As I said, there were 3 of us, we have all moved away now, our friend died last year so there's just me and my sister. We never talk about it but we both know what we saw and heard.

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ukelele lady

Remember Houdini the great escapist ?

He always told his wife that when he died, if ever there was a way to come back and give her a sign he promised he would do so.

She waited in hope until her dying day for some sort of message from him but to no avail.

So then I start thinking , if he couldn't do it how do the others do it ?

Are they breaking some sort of Heavens laws? :o ;-)

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History dude

I did see a spook investigator once talking about various cases on TV. A family he said were experiance odd things happening in their home. One involved a clock I think it was. The hands were being moved to different positions. The family had know idea how it could happen. Neither did the "ghostbuster"! But as a wild guess he looked at one of thier kids and said it's you that is doing these things :angry: He was expecting the kid to say no, but instead he broke down and admitted everything. :o

The moral of the story is to look for anything that could be suspicious. Old houses creek more than a new one. Mould / lead paint could release spores or toxic things that can cause visual or other disturbances of the mind. Stress of moving to a new house is huge. Stories of what went off there will increase this stress level. Some family members might not be happy with the move and cause other problems. Neighbours could do things to get shut of people they don't like. Or the local kids/youths might even do things to make the house seem hunted, especially if they hear of the story.

When people report these stories they often add elements to them. The truth becomes distorted. Popular myths such as the bus driver who picks up a passenger (at night of course) from a stop only he/she never gets off the bus. The driver finding out later the person died at the bus stop etc, days, weeks, or years ago! Get added to them.

There are a lot of these urban myths around too!

In the story above for example the piano playing, but the person doesn't say if it was mearly plonking away or doing a known tune. This just builds the story up to make it more believable than it might be. Though I'm not saying it's not true! For example if it was mearly plonking then that could be explained by rodents inside this unused intrustment. In fact rodents explain a lot of things connected with ghost stories.

Lastly the mind can be fooled into seeing things that are not there. Humans seem to have inbuilt face recognition built into our minds. We see a face in most things. Just have a look in your tea cup after you have drunk it and if there are tea leaves in it left over. I bet you will see a face ;-)

Here are some things that prove seeing is not believing :P

The cubes are not 3D and the words don't move! :wacko:

The Girl or the Old woman :mellow:

Faces or Vase?

Duck or Rabbit?

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History dude

Remember Houdini the great escapist? He always told his wife that when he died,

if ever there was a way to come back and give her a sign he promised he would

do so.

She waited in hope until her dying day for some sort of message from him but

to no avail.

So then I start thinking , if he couldn't do it how do the others do it ?

Are they breaking some sort of Heavens laws? :o;-)

Yes and Houdini also exposed all the mediums he went to as fakes. For he knew every trick in the book.

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Guest whyme

I did see a spook investigator once talking about various cases on TV. A family he said were experiance odd things happening in their home. One involved a clock I think it was. The hands were being moved to different positions. The family had know idea how it could happen. Neither did the "ghostbuster"! But as a wild guess he looked at one of thier kids and said it's you that is doing these things :angry: He was expecting the kid to say no, but instead he broke down and admitted everything. :o

The moral of the story is to look for anything that could be suspicious. Old houses creek more than a new one. Mould / lead paint could release spores or toxic things that can cause visual or other disturbances of the mind. Stress of moving to a new house is huge. Stories of what went off there will increase this stress level. Some family members might not be happy with the move and cause other problems. Neighbours could do things to get shut of people they don't like. Or the local kids/youths might even do things to make the house seem hunted, especially if they hear of the story.

When people report these stories they often add elements to them. The truth becomes distorted. Popular myths such as the bus driver who picks up a passenger (at night of course) from a stop only he/she never gets off the bus. The driver finding out later the person died at the bus stop etc, days, weeks, or years ago! Get added to them.

There are a lot of these urban myths around too!

In the story above for example the piano playing, but the person doesn't say if it was mearly plonking away or doing a known tune. This just builds the story up to make it more believable than it might be. Though I'm not saying it's not true! For example if it was mearly plonking then that could be explained by rodents inside this unused intrustment. In fact rodents explain a lot of things connected with ghost stories.

Lastly the mind can be fooled into seeing things that are not there. Humans seem to have inbuilt face recognition built into our minds. We see a face in most things. Just have a look in your tea cup after you have drunk it and if there are tea leaves in it left over. I bet you will see a face ;-)

Here are some things that prove seeing is not believing :P

The cubes are not 3D and the words don't move! :wacko:

The Girl or the Old woman :mellow:

Faces or Vase?

Duck or Rabbit?

I wish I could explain away what happens here as easy as that. I have a very logical mind and I have looked for all the possible reasons for the things that happen here and have come up with total blank. I cannot not tell you if there are such things as ghosts because I like everybody else do not know so I neither believe or disbelieve and keep a very open mind but what I do know is the paranormal is real because of what we have experienced here. One thing I have figured out is science tends to dismiss what it cannot explain.

Before we moved in this house I never believed in the paranormal and always thought that everything could be explained but I don't believe that any more. There are things in this world that we may never understand but just because we don't understand it does not mean that we should dismiss it.

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A Few years ago we had been to the peak district hiking and missed the last bus back to Sheffield, so we walked it back from Fox House along the A625, by the time we had got about a quarter of the way it was already dark and nothing about apart from a few cars driving past, as we were walking along just before a bend in the road near Sheephill road a couple of cars were coming towards us, and about 15 ft away we clearly saw the silhouette of somebody in the car headlights, but from the waist down, slowly walk in front of the first car, crossing from left to right side of the road. The car never slowed down or stopped and we both switched our torches on , but nobody there, no sound of foot steps or anything, but we had both seen the same thing.

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hilldweller

A Few years ago we had been to the peak district hiking and missed the last bus back to Sheffield, so we walked it back from Fox House along the A625, by the time we had got about a quarter of the way it was already dark and nothing about apart from a few cars driving past, as we were walking along just before a bend in the road near Sheephill road a couple of cars were coming towards us, and about 15 ft away we clearly saw the silhouette of somebody in the car headlights, but from the waist down, slowly walk in front of the first car, crossing from left to right side of the road. The car never slowed down or stopped and we both switched our torches on , but nobody there, no sound of foot steps or anything, but we had both seen the same thing.

During the early 1970's, '72 or '73, we were driving back from visiting relatives in Derbyshire late one night when we came upon an horrific sight as we rounded the last severe bend before the Sheephill Road turn-off.

Two cars had collided in the middle of the road and the bodies of severely injured or dead young people were laid in the road.

Other cars had pulled up and were attempting to help 'so we climbed back into the car and drove like fury down to the phone box opposite the Dore Moor Inn and summoned help. No mobile phones in those days.

The two cars had contained a number of students, about five in each, one set were returning to Sheffield and the others were driving out to get the last half hour drinking time in the Derbyshire pubs when they met. (Longer hours in Derbyshire in those days).

I can't remember the exact details but I think at least five young people were killed.

Perhaps your ghost was connected with those poor souls.

HD

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