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History dude

Where to find late 1960's OS Maps large scale?

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I am really struggling to find large scale OS maps of the area around Victoria Station for the years 1966 to 1968. The same scale as the one's from the 50's on this site 1:1250.

I know you can't reproduce them on here, but a full scale search of the internet has revealed not even a commercial source for them. Even the OS site itself has no mention of any maps early than 1960. There's nothing on E-Bay in that scale for Sheffield. The Scotland one has them, but only for Scotland.

Don't know if Local Studies has them, or can supply copies of them.

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Posted (edited)

You will not find areas in the 1/1250 Ordnance Survey plans for specific years.This was a completely new survey at this scale in Urban Areas started in 1950. Rural areas were updated at the 1/2500 scale previously found on the County Series plans, and some 1/2500 sheets were produced in town areas by scaling down 1/1250 survey information (no house numbers were shown on these).

The OS had a 'Continuous Revision' scheme where updated versions of the 1/1250 sheets could be requested when areas were newly developed or demolition work undertaken. The Statutory Undertakers made extensive use of this survey for their records of pipes, cables etc.and ,I imagine, still do. Because of the random nature of this work, you will find no consistency of year dates, the first 1/1250 plans produced (Sheffield started in 1950) were allocated the letter 'A'. This appears at the bottom left-hand corner of the sheet, subsequent revisions moving to the next letter of the alphabet (eg B...C...D...). Change to Metric heights took place around 1970 and an example of this can be found on this website:    https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/436154/387798/13/100765    Select the OS plan 1963-1970 1/1250.

Sheffield City Council had all the relevant Ordnance Survey Licences to reproduce these plans for their Engineers and Architects and Estates Departments. Do they still have a Printing Department? Surely all those 'negative' master-copies are stored somewhere safe in archives.

Unfortunately (Sod's Law again) the Sheffield Victoria Station site falls on four different 1/1250 sheets! 

Edited by Voldy
Date error corrected
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The old maps one a bit strange, it has some areas that are just about blank, but (for example) the railway tunnel of the midland line appears. Further down a whole bunch of lines just stops into a white block.

Despite it saying 1963 on it, it is certainly a 1970 map. Since Victoria is closed on it.

I would have thought that any SCC maps would be in Local Studies or the Archives. But there is no online search for either and explaining what is wanted in e-mail (which knowing the Council these days would be ignored) is not going to be easy. I would rather source them elsewhere if it is possible.  

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Yes, the old-maps site appears to have stitched together whatever plans they have managed to acquire be they original "1st Editions" of the early 50's or subsequent revised plans. This has resulted in a number of oddities when mismatched dated sheets have been joined to provide a 'rolling map' facility, by scrolling.

Maybe SteveHB can offer some information regarding a likely source of 1/1250 plans having been heavily involved in producing this site's excellent library of local plans.

Why not try an e-mail to Shoreham Street to see if they can source any versions of 1/1250 sheet SK 3687NW and/or 1/2500 SK 3687 (if printed), I've had helpful responses in the past to my requests.  

 

 

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22 hours ago, Voldy said:

You will not find areas in the 1/1250 Ordnance Survey plans for specific years.This was a completely new survey at this scale in Urban Areas started in 1950. Rural areas were updated at the 1/2500 scale previously found on the County Series plans, and some 1/2500 sheets were produced in town areas by scaling down 1/1250 survey information (no house numbers were shown on these).

The OS had a 'Continuous Revision' scheme where updated versions of the 1/1250 sheets could be requested when areas were newly developed or demolition work undertaken. The Statutory Undertakers made extensive use of this survey for their records of pipes, cables etc.and ,I imagine, still do. Because of the random nature of this work, you will find no consistency of year dates, the first 1/1250 plans produced (Sheffield started in 1950) were allocated the letter 'A'. This appears at the bottom left-hand corner of the sheet, subsequent revisions moving to the next letter of the alphabet (eg B...C...D...). Change to Metric heights took place around 1970 and an example of this can be found on this website:    https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/436154/387798/13/100765    Select the OS plan 1963-1970 1/1250.

Sheffield City Council had all the relevant Ordnance Survey Licences to reproduce these plans for their Engineers and Architects and Estates Departments. Do they still have a Printing Department? Surely all those 'negative' master-copies are stored somewhere safe in archives.

Unfortunately (Sod's Law again) the Sheffield Victoria Station site falls on four different 1/1250 sheets! 

I have a map of Parson Cross taken from when we demolished part of Meynell School, bit battered and torn, it was from the dept of planning and design, scale of 1:2500 and shows house numbers.

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What year was that neddy?  There are gaps in the Master-grid Index in the Southey/Parson Cross areas, maybe yours covers one of the missing areas.

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3 hours ago, Voldy said:

What year was that neddy?  There are gaps in the Master-grid Index in the Southey/Parson Cross areas, maybe yours covers one of the missing areas.

No idea on the age of the map no date shown in the date box it was 1970's when we did the work at Meynell we took the small buildings down.

It measures roughly 3ft by 4ft  rather fragile but still readable.

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I have e-mailed Local Studies for the 60's maps. They sent me a message back saying they will give me more information next week. I will let you know what happens.

I identified the areas I need on four sheets. SK3787NE, SK3787NW, SK3687NE, and SK3687NW.

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On 12/04/2019 at 12:46, Voldy said:

Yes, the old-maps site appears to have stitched together whatever plans they have managed to acquire be they original "1st Editions" of the early 50's or subsequent revised plans. This has resulted in a number of oddities when mismatched dated sheets have been joined to provide a 'rolling map' facility, by scrolling.

Maybe SteveHB can offer some information regarding a likely source of 1/1250 plans having been heavily involved in producing this site's excellent library of local plans.

Why not try an e-mail to Shoreham Street to see if they can source any versions of 1/1250 sheet SK 3687NW and/or 1/2500 SK 3687 (if printed), I've had helpful responses in the past to my requests.  

 

 

Sorry Voldy just seen your comment, RichardB purchased the OS maps as a batch from an ebay seller, I do not know any other source where individual maps could be bought.

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Reply received. Not good news!

Quote

 

Thank you for your E-Mail regarding copies of 1:1250 OS maps for areas within Sheffield.

The Local Studies Library is where the bulk of the OS maps held by Sheffield Libraries is kept.

I have had a look at the maps they hold and they do hold copies covering the four areas you have mentioned in your E-Mail.

They all appear to be from 1954 or from 1970 or later.

I could not see any from the 1960s.

SK3687NW and SK3687NE are those that have copies for 1970.

There is a 50 year copyright closure for obtaining more than an A4 sheet from an OS map.

If you were interested in copies of the maps from 1954 which in this case are SK3787NE, SK3687NE and SK3687NW then we can send maps to be copied from between £17-50 and £19-00 each,inclusive of a handling charge.

Alternatively you are welcome to visit the Local Studies Library when they are open (times are below) and take photographs with your own camera for no charge.

 

As anyone on this site is aware nearly all the 1954 maps are available here. The 1970 map is just too late, as I am interested in the changes to the railway system, by that point Sheffield Victoria had closed and MASSIVE changes would have occurred to the railway infrastructure by that year. Also it falls into the copyright thing which limits what you can do.

Following the lack of information map wise for the area between the Nunnery junction (where the line from the Midland joins the Victoria line) to the end of Woodbourne Road bridge, I had a look around for aerial photo's of the area. But again they are absent. Even on the Britain From Above website, even the earlier photos cut off just past the Junction. They then pick up the tracks after the triangle junction of Woodbourne. Since the plane was taking pictures of Nunnery Colliery. 

There are some photo's of the Nunnery Carriage Sidings on Picture Sheffield and one of Woodbourne Road bridge which appears to show some kind of Water Tower, but is not complete to make out the full structure. There's a good one on Flicker too taken from the bridge looking up the line to Sheffield, which again shows a tower, but again lacking enough detail. All the Nunnery Sidings ones on Picture Sheffield again don't show the full scope of the site.

I find it really odd that there are more pictures of Sheffield Railways from before 1955 then there are then the later periods. Especially the aerial pictures. Which is really odd when you think about since there were more planes and even helicopters in the 60's and 70's then there was before. Perhaps they are waiting in vaults somewhere for the copyrights to run out for someone to upload them? 

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Whilst on the subject of maps, don't know the year,

 

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Looking at these maps and seeing the places that are still there on the map and the places that have yet to be built

I would say they were about the mid to early 50s.

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7 hours ago, ukelele lady said:

Looking at these maps and seeing the places that are still there on the map and the places that have yet to be built

I would say they were about the mid to early 50s.

I'd go with that, Fowler street and surroundings are on there, I do have the map /street guide but it's 36 scans long, first page,

1.jpg

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Probably based on the same large scale OS Maps from the 50's on this site.

But even the OS didn't remove things from later editions of maps. I certainly had a street map like that, dated from the 1970's, which wasn't showing the Mansfield Road Fire Station built. The above map doesn't have it either.

I recently got an OS map 1:25 000 which has a sticker on it for 70p. The legend says "compiled from 6" sheets last revised 1914-36. Other partial systematic revision 1938-50 has been incorporated. Major roads revised 1971.  The copyright date in 1951. 

From this one must conclude that the OS people are either A: Idle sods or B daft! 

So you can use the map to see if there is a major road, or look for a railway goods yard that was closed in 1962 and quickly converted to a car park (the one next to Victoria Station) also shown on the street map!

I wonder if the brand new OS maps (with all the latest tech they have now for mapping) still have new features on them and ones that have NOT existed for 20 or 30 years? 

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