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On 16/05/2018 at 18:40, Keith_exS10 said:

What's it doing ere

I don't see anything on your post Keith_exS10 , I think there must be a picture missing, would you have a look and see what you can do please?  I am intrigued as to what unusual vehicle is in Sheffield.

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20180516_120542.thumb.jpg.07c2a550bed29057cd12574731e33882.jpg

On 16/05/2018 at 18:40, Keith_exS10 said:

Small problem which has intrigued me for years. A  picture of a situation I had seen and wondered about.but much of which for once is no problem thanks to Peter Gough's monumental Road Car fleet history.  The bus is a North Western Bristol L5G ECW  of 1938, fleet No 828A, the suffix indicating rebodying in 1950 by Willowbrook and which was withdrawn in 1958. The Midland Station is obvious  with no sign of the 1957 Parkhill development behind it so the photo is somewhere about 1951-1956. We even have the time 3-20 pm.on the clock and this is  the odd part which I hope bus members may be able to explain.

  We used the 84 Buxton buses to

the relatives  from about 1938 through to the mid 1950s. This was a joint service  at this time and  so far as I am aware was the only one to bring Road Car  buses into the city, yet here is one mid afternoon heading for Castleton 

To explain, the wartime and later winter  Buxton service was three journies only at 9.25, 1.25 and 5.25 from each end. The Road Car came in,  stood for some two hours and went back at 1.25.  The later summer service was every rwo hours which meant only a few minutes layover at each end  before returning for both concerns. Must have been a strain on the crews; 

I see no chance of borrowing the Road Car bus on the three per day schedule . On the five per day there is a Road Car bus in the city at 3 p.m. but was it diverted to Castleton and if so  for what reason. One obscure possibility is that on its presumed return the last service of the day would be a through working. The usual cry  "EYAM ROYAL OAK ALL CHANGE", as soon as the bus stopped was not too welcome in a winter evening as both buses met, reversed and turned back for home. I suppose we should also ask if there were other similar journies each day.

I never heard of the 72 Castleton being a joint route  nor did I ever hear of a Road Car bus being outstationed at Sheffield.  Or was there a tie-up with   the 37 or 40 Bakewell route which I only ever used once in Xmas week 1952. I could be wrong.  Somebody must know how  it was done. Please.

 Apologies all round for the missing first post which is probably in some sort of electronic dustbin somewhere.

One final aside re another thread on the beauties of the early bus route through Castleton  and on to Manchester.. In the 1940s the relatives out there had other thoughts on the early Road Car. At each hill they waited for "MEN GET OFF", "MEN OFF AND PUSH"  or occasionally "EVERYBODY OFF". As they said " It werna clever in't winter surry"

 

 

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A bit about those routes and North Western in this post from last year          ---------     

 

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Off the top of my head but the following I believe is a possible explanation.

The present Sheffield - Castleton 272 service is still jointly operated by First and Hulley''s.  c20-30 years ago Hulley's took over journeys previously operated by Trent on the route.  Going further back these had been operated by North Western before abortion by Trent.  The buses used were I believe based at Matlock but out stationed at Bradwell, this practise continued well into the 1980's at least. 

The bus in the picture is displaying route 72 which supports it being this route. 

Currently a Hulley's bus leaves Sheffield at c15:30 and I recall someone with a better knowledge of such things saying that the present day Hulley's timing are very close to those operated by North Western.   

 

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Mid 70's I was working OMO on the Derbyshire board from East Bank, by that time Trent ran as route 172 to Castleton and we ran as 272.

EDIT Though it was a long time ago I do also seem to remember jointly operating with Hulley's, if I am correct they must have taken over from Trent some time in the 70's, I left in the early 80's but was on nights for the last few years.

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1 hour ago, Peter Hall said:

Off the top of my head but the following I believe is a possible explanation.

The present Sheffield - Castleton 272 service is still jointly operated by First and Hulley''s.  c20-30 years ago Hulley's took over journeys previously operated by Trent on the route.  Going further back these had been operated by North Western before abortion by Trent.  The buses used were I believe based at Matlock but out stationed at Bradwell, this practise continued well into the 1980's at least. 

The bus in the picture is displaying route 72 which supports it being this route. 

Currently a Hulley's bus leaves Sheffield at c15:30 and I recall someone with a better knowledge of such things saying that the present day Hulley's timing are very close to those operated by North Western.   

 

C C Hall mentions that agreement between the Corporation and North Western to jointly operate services to Castleton and Buxton was made in 1927 or 1928, so it seems likely that North Western operated into Sheffield on the Castleton route 72 until that company's demise.

A quick comparison between the current route 271/272 timetable and that of the 72 from 1967 does indeed show that timings of the North Western journeys and the current Hulleys journeys are not that dissimilar, although there is some variation due to the current service being more evenly spaced and more frequent. 

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I have done some checking in M&T News and established the last date of Trent Motor Traction Company operation on the Sheffield - Castleton 272 was 31st December 1988.  Silver Service Group took over operating the former Trent journeys on 3td January 1989 (no service operated on 1st & 2nd January).  The Silver Service Group subsequently divested itself of its Baslow based operation which became then became the present day Hulleys.

 The last day of North Western Road Car Company operation was  4th March 1972, operation of the services to Buxton and Castleton passing to the Trent Motor Traction Company.

Need to do some more digging but believe the last Trent Buxton services were withdrawn in October 1987 but the story from 1972 is not straight forward as PMT became involved at some point and continued until more recently I think.

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Done some more digging and discovered an article that I had written titled 'Froggat's Last Bus Service' in the December 1987 (276) M&&T News!  

Joint operation of the Sheffield - Buxton service between the Corporation and North Western Road Car Company (NWRC) continued until January 1970.  Operation then passing wholly to  NWRC as a consequence of the 1968 Transport Act.  As with the Castleton service NWRC operations passed to Trent Motor Traction Company (TMTC) with effect from 5th March 1972.  By the mid 1970's the route was being jointly operated by TMTC and Potteries Motor Traction (PMT) having been amalgamated with the Buxton - Potteries via Axe Edge service.

In January 1985 the service was split into two with PMT operating a Sheffield - Potteries service via Owler Bar, Baslow and Bakewell and TMTC operating a Sheffield - Buxton service via the traditional route.

The traditional route and service was expected to cease with de-regulation in October 1986.  However TMTC continued to operate one journey each way Monday - Saturday until 31st October 1987.

.Thus, if TMTC is considered to be the direct descendent of NWRC operation of the Buxton and Castleton routes continued until October 1987 and December 1988 respectively.

.

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