Journeyman

[Marg]

Some of my ancestors have this stated in their Occupations along with a specific skill, eg. 'Cabinet maker (Journeyman)' 

Can anyone explain what this is in connection to Sheffield skills and apprenticeships?

I thought it was a skill level after a period of time in an apprenticeship.

There again I'm probably wrong!

[HughW]

From the Oxford English Dictionary:

". One who, having served his apprenticeship to a handicraft or trade, is qualified to work at it for days' wages; a mechanic who has served his apprenticeship or learned a trade or handicraft, and works at it not on his own account but as the servant or employee of another; a qualified mechanic or artisan who works for another. Distinguished on one side from apprentice, on the other from master."

The 'journey' part is related to French journée -day, a day's work.

[Marg]

Ah haa! So - qualified, and served their apprenticeship, but not the boss!

Thank you HughW

 

[Unitedite Returns]

I think that today, that you might call a 'journeyman' a self-employed tradesman, in other words, a qualified, skilled worker, who works on his own account, moving from one job to another, as required.

[Keith_exS10]

A few small points missing so far. Dating back to the mediaeval  trade guilds, an apprentice finishes his training and receives his indentures to recognise  his ability to work up to a standard.He  is then a journeyman,  accepted as being capable of working  at his trade without  supervision.   In general  this  lasted for five years,  after which time  he was then accepted as being a tradesman and so able to train others. 

In my dealings with the trades unions in the mid to late 1900s the term had become largely academic. Some craft unions still recognised it although  the rates of pay were for  tradesmen or apprentices only. . We did however have three rates  for draughtsmen and some technicians who were still being classified as apprentices, then journeymen and finally regarded as fully qualified. You could bet on the union rep.coming in to remind me that someone would soon be twenty six   and would I check that  Salaries Dept. had noted it. 

Our attitude like many others was that we had trained them and were happy to see them continue with us.  Originally at twenty one they struck out on their own. Some companies terminated their employment at twenty one, the suspicion being that a new apprentice was cheaper to run  than a new journeyman. There was a different take on that of which the  London and North Western Railway was an example. A new journeyman was automatically dismissed for his own good so he could gain wider experience After the five years he would be guaranteed a job with them if he so wished. A sort of thinly disguised early form of industrial.espionage perhaps? 

As we have suddenly reinvented apprenticeships  I wonder if there will be any more journeymen?. Suppose that should be journeypersons nowadays.

 

[Marg]

Brilliant to have a range of answers, thank you.

[lysander]

If we look at the origination of the word we will see that it is derived from the French " jour"  hence a "journeyman" was someone who was qualified to work for a days wages.

[Athy]

...and perhaps more precisely from "journée", a daytime, rather than "jour", a calendar day - hence "journey", the distance you could travel in a day.

[lysander]

The O E Dictionary of English Entymology defines the word " journeyman" as someone qualified to work for DAY wages. ( and not dayS as I said earlier).

[Athy]

....so, a workman who could be hired by the day rather than having a permanent job.

[lysander]

Sounds a reasonable interpretation