Seeking information on the Vickers family of Sheffield

[Meg Young]

I am new to this forum and have not been successful in my search for this topic in your files.  I apologize if I am bringing up an old topic.  I am seeking information on Benjamin Vickers, Master Cutler of 1799.  

I tried doing a search on your site for Benjamin Vickers, Master Cutler, 1799, but got nothing.  In Robert Eadon Leader's "Reminiscences of Old Sheffield," there is a mention of Benjamin Vickers on p. 141,  "Between Hicks lane and Workhouse lane was Mr. Benjamin Vickers, who was Master Cutler in 1799.  He was uncle to the then Mr. Vickers of Mill Sands and granduncle to the late (1872-73) Master Cutler, Mr. T.E. Vickers." Mr. John Vickers, corn miller of Mill Sands, is my 3rd ggrandfather.  His 5th son, Henry Vickers, who became a solicitor in Sheffield, is my 2nd ggrandfather. I am having great difficulty discovering who the parents of John Vickers were. I've been in on-line contact with two descendants of Edward Vickers, Henry's older brother, on Ancestry.com, and they don't know either. There are Vickers trees on Ancestry, but they have little documentation and I don't trust them. 

 

I'm hoping that information on Benjamin Vickers Master Cutler 1799, will throw light on the parentage of John Vickers as Benjamin's brother would have been John Vickers' father. On Ancestry I have found various documents with the name Benjamin Vickers. On Church Lane listed under Cutlers Company is a Benj. Vickers, proprietor, from 1781 (land tax documents).  On Spring Croft there is a Benjamin Vickers, silversmith, who is paying tax on apprenticeship dues received in 1786, etc.. In 1817, there is an entry in Quarter Session Records, Wakefield, regarding a James Robinson's theft of blades, steel, and ivory from Francis Carr, Benjamin Vickers, and William Anderson. Are these Benjamin Vickers all the same man, or different men?  I am showing my ignorance, but were cutlers ever silversmiths?  Did people have workshops on different streets in the town? I've looked for a map of 1799 to find Hicks lane and Workhouse lane to see if Church lane or Spring croft are near by but haven't been able to find a map.  Can anybody help me out?  

 

Yours in ignorance.

 

 

[Edmund]

Here is the Gales and Martin 1797 entry for Vickers (the "silversmith" transcription may be in error for scissorsmith - have you seen the original document?)

Here is the Vickers entry from Leader's transcription of Apprentice and Freedom records (again, it points to Benjamin being a scissorsmith, unlikely for a silversmith to become Master Cutler?)

A 1771 map of the area (Spring Croft became Spring Lane / Spring Street):

and in 1808, note how hand the town mill would have been for a brother running a scissorsmith enterprise in Spring Street:

From Crossley's "Water Power on the Sheffield Rivers" ;

Town Corn Mill and Wheel

In 1740 Thomas Ford took a lease to the Town Mill, and built the cutlers wheel adjacent.  In 1761 there began the association of the Vickers with the mill and wheel.  John Vickers took a 21-year lease of the mill and 'that cutler wheel of one end and ten troughs standing near the said corn mill and erected about ten years since at the sole expense of Thomas Ford late lessee'. In the 1794 list Vickers held the mill and the wheel, with 34 troughs employing 38 men, and in 1805 the wheel and the mill were sold to Vickers by the Norfolk estate.  From 1825 the area was developed as a steel works, with the erection of a rolling mill and the beginnings of the use of steam; by the middle of the century Naylor, Vickers were steel manufacturers on some scale. The grinding wheel is shown empty in the 1845/6 rate book, and although advertised to let in 1849, it had disappeared from the rate books by 1855.  In 1877 the Vickers sold the site of the grinding wheel and part of the mill dam to the brewers Tennant and Moore.  Although John Vickers was described as a miller in 1876, soon after his death , it is clear that his interests had moved towards the iron and steel trades: the corn mill is shown let to Samuel Price in the rate books of the 1850's to the 1870's.  The 1895 list of wheels states that water power had been abandoned in 1877.

[Edmund]

I think this may be the obituary for your GGgrandfather, though the article incorrectly states his father as Benjamin, miller rather than John , miller:

[Edmund]

From J. Edward Vickers' "A Popular History of Sheffield" pp83-84:

Edward Vickers.  The history of the Vickers family connections with Sheffield (the author is a descendant of this family) commenced when John Vickers came to Sheffield in about 1710 and took over the Town Mill at Millsands.  This was a corn mill, situated at the side of the River Don, and when John died the mill passed to his son, another John.  This John married Gertrude Rodgers, of Sheffield, and they had nine children, four sons and five daughters.  The eldest son, Edward, was born on 21st March 1804, and he carried on his father's trade as a miller, until he married Anne Naylor, the daughter of George Naylor, the senior partner in the firm of Naylor and Sanderson.

In 1829 this firm was dissolved and there arose two new firms, Sanderson Brothers and Company and Naylor, Hutchinson, Vickers and Company.The Vickers in this company was William, one of Edward's brothers. This new firm began their business at Millsands and in 1837 the works were estimated to be worth over seventeen thousand pounds. As time passed William Vickers became extremely interested in the Sheffield and Rotherham Railway and he gave less and less time to the works at Millsands. Edward therefore withdrew from the Town Mill and took over control of the steel firm, sending his two sons, Thomas and Albert, to receive a technical education in Germany. The firm, which had now become Naylor, Vickers and Company, prospered and in 1867 the large Don Streel Works of Vickers, Sons and Company were erected at Brightside.

section on bell making missed out

In 1846 Edward Vickers had been elected an Alderman and in the following year he was Mayor of Sheffield.  When a Commission of the Peace was granted to the city in 1848, he was made a Justice and for many years afterwards he was a prominent member of the Bench.  Edward Vickers lived at Tapton Hall, which he erected in 1853 on the site of the old Tapton House.  This had been the home of Mrs Shore, who was the grandmother of Florence Nightingale....Edward died on 10th March 1897 in Oxfordshire, to which county he had retired.  He left two sons and two daughters.

Thomas Edward Vickers.

One of the sons of Edward Vickers was Thomas Edward who was born on 9th July 1833, and was educated in Sheffield and Germany.  He became a Justice of the Peace and was Master Cutler in 1872.  He was also the Hon.Colonel of the Hallamshire Battalion of the York and Lancaster Regiment.  Queen Victoria later conferred upon him the Order of the Companionship of Bath.  Thomas Edward Vickers controlled the now great firm of Vickers Ltd for more than fifty years, eventually dying in London on 19th October 1915, at the age of eighty-two

[Edmund]

Here is part of an article giving some details of deaths and relationships in the Vickers family.  This Benjamin was buried on 6th October 1880 aged 83 at Ecclesall All Saints (hence year of birth 1797).

[Meg Young]

Thank you, Edmund, for this information, which I would not have been able to find on my own because I don't know where to begin to look.  I am grateful to have received it.  Let me go step-by-step through the documents you have uploaded.  

Gales and Martin directory of 1797 and the two maps:

I think that you are correct about a transcription error on the Ancestry document and the Benjamin Vickers living on SpringStreet was a scissorsmith, not a silversmith. The 1808 map you provided is most helpful.  I now understand where Hicks and Workhouse lanes/Spring Street are in relation to Sand Mills, and where Sand Mills was located.  Do you know where Sims croft is?  There is a William Vickers, scissorsmith, living on Sims croft in the 1797 directory.  He could also be a brother. 

Leader's transcription of Apprentice and Freedom records:

Helpful in a number of ways.  Most obviously the entry for Vickers, Benjamin, son of John, miller; to Matthew Thomas, sc., 7, 1769, F 1776.  I want to understand how to translate the code.  Is "sc" short for scissorsmith?  Is "7, 1769"  July 1769 the date of entry into an apprenticeship and "F 1776"  freedom from apprenticeship in 1776?  These dates fit with a St. Peter baptismal entry for a Benja. Vickers son of John Vickers, Dec 5, 1755.   

But there is a problem for this Benjamin the Master Cutler of 1799, being the UNCLE of John Vickers, owner of the corn mill at 2 Mill Sands.  He would more likely be the brother of John Vickers.  I know from John Vickers' marriage certificate that he was born in 1756.  This Benjamin Vickers would have been born around the same date.  Is Leader ever wrong?  Could he have made a mistake and listed Benjamin Vickers incorrectly an an uncle whereas he is a brother of John Vickers?  I know John Vickers had a brother Benjamin, because he identifies his brother Benjamin Vickers as a trustee in his will, proved April 6, 1827. 

Is there a way to find a will for Benjamin Vickers?  I was lucky to find the will for John Vickers, proved 1827,  posted on Ancestry (England and Wales, Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills, 1384-1858). Benjamin would have died too early to be listed in the England and Wales National Probate Calendar, which only starts in 1858. And I have no idea why John Vickers' will would be housed in the Court of Canterbury Wills.  How does one find wills in England?

The other way this list is helpful is to identify other Vickers families in the area.  I'm going to make a list of families as an attempt to sort out names.  Thank you for this document.  Very helpful. 

Crossley's "Water Power on the Sheffield Rivers"

- Quotation from Crossley: "Although John Vickers was described as a miller in 1876, soon after his death, it is clear that his interests had moved towards the iron and steel trades"

John Vickers died in 1826-27, so 1876 is 50 years after his death, not soon after.  Is the John Vickers referred to in Crossley, a different John Vickers from the John Vickers of 2 Mill Sands b. 1755-d. c. 1827?  John and Gertrude Vickers had a first-born son John Vickers, baptized June 6, 1788, at St. Peter.  This John Vickers seems to have disappeared.  He is not mentioned in Henry Vickers obituary, nor in J. Edward Vickers' account of Sheffield.  I have not found any trace of him in the England censuses of 1841, 51, 61.  On Ancestry he becomes Johnson Vickers who marries an Ann Chapman and many Vickers families descend from this couple. But there is no evidence that John Vickers and Johnson Vickers are the same person. And in J. Edwards Vickers' account and in Henry Vickers' obituary, there is no mention of John Vickers or his brother Thomas Vickers also baptized at St. Peter.  

- Crossley mentioned that the Norfolk estate sold the wheel and the mill to Vickers in 1805.  In the 1827 will, John Vickers mentions the 99-year lease from the Duke of Norfolk.  This must be what he is referring to.  Helpful. 

 

J. Edward Vickers A Popular History of Sheffield

- 1710 John Vickers came to Sheffield -- helpful, explains why there were no Vickers in the Norfolk estate survey of the 17th c posted on the Sheffield HIstory site

Thank you again. 

 

Meg

 

 

[Meg Young]

Sorry Edmund, got called away from the computer.

- The obituary of Henry Vickers is the obituary of my 2nd ggrandfather.  I hadn't known that Sibilla James was his second wife.  A neat summary of his career.  

- J. Edward Vickers' Short History of Sheffield.  The first paragraph of the excerpt is a surprise: "The eldest son, Edward, was born on 21st March 1804, and he carried on his father's trade as a miller, until he married Anne Naylor, the daughter of George Naylor, the senior partner in the firm of Naylor and Sanderson."  In fact the eldest son was John, baptized c. 1889.  Edward was the 9th child and the 5th son:  John, Thomas, Benjamin, William, Edward, and Henry. John and Thomas cannot be accounted for. Benjamin, William, Edward, and Henry are all mentioned in their father's will and appear in the various censuses.   Mr. Vickers was going on family lore and didn't do his research.  Can he be trusted when he says that the first Vickers came to Sheffield in 1710?  And was this Vickers the father or the grandfather of  the John Vickers who married Gertrude Rodgers and had 12 children? 

- Is there a directory of inhabitants of Sheffield circa 1750?

- Is there a way to track Sheffield deaths in the 18th century?  

- Is there a way to trace the leasing of the mill from 1710 on?  I'm guessing that this land was owned by the Duke of Norfolk. 

-Spectator in Hallamshire - Useful.  Thank you. 

Again, I am most grateful.  Meg

[Edmund]

According to the Familiae Minorum Gentium Vol 3 (researched by Rev. Joseph Hunter, transcribed by John Clay, and published by the Harleian Society in 1894) the first John Vickers' father was Edward Vickers, originally from Wakefield, who married into the old and well to do Rawson family of Sheffield (tanners at Wardsend).  Edward married Mary Rawson at St Mary's Ecclesfield by licence dated 12th July 1716 - he was 28 years old and she was 22.

[Edmund]

On 12/11/2017 at 16:07, Meg Young said:

Most obviously the entry for Vickers, Benjamin, son of John, miller; to Matthew Thomas, sc., 7, 1769, F 1776.  I want to understand how to translate the code.  Is "sc" short for scissorsmith?  Is "7, 1769"  July 1769 the date of entry into an apprenticeship and "F 1776"  freedom from apprenticeship in 1776? 

Below is the key for the Apprentices records.  "sc" is scissorsmith, 7 was the length of the apprenticeship in years, started in 1769, he took his freedom in 1776 (often delayed as there was a fee to pay, it also could restrict their activities)

[Meg Young]

Rev. Hunter's family tree is brilliant.  And the details of Edward Vickers' marriage to Mary Rawson most helpful.  I can now estimate their birth years.  Also,Benjamin's  sister Anne married a John Linley.  Ancestry has documents for the company Linley and Vickers so the two brothers-in-law must have worked together at one time.  I'm going to Google Rev. Hunter and see if he has a tree for the Rawsons and the Linleys. Was pleased to see that John Vickers, miller, married a Mary Hall.  I found baptismal records for a John Vickers (1758) and a Benjamin Vickers (1755) with parents John and Mary Vickers.  I may have the correct ones.  I'll go back and check as John's baptism should be earlier than Benjamin's. Benjamin, Mr Cutler 1799, is a brother, not an uncle, based on this tree. Thanks to you, the puzzle pieces are falling into place. Thank you, also, for the key to reading apprenticeship abbreviations. The Hunter tree is a gift.  Meg

[Edmund]

The will of:

RAWSON, Thomas, of Barley Hole, in the Chapellry of Wentworth, tanner, written 18 May 1728. Beneficiaries: daughter Mary VICKERS (£50), her husband Edward VICKERS “a Broad peice of Gold”, and their children Thomas VICKERS, John VICKERS, William VICKERS & Anne VICKERS (£5 ea.) (all under 21 years), daughter Sarah RAWSON (£200), daughter Hannah RAWSON (£200, “except if she marry Marmaduke FOX of Sheffield...I hereby give her 5 s”), son James RAWSON and his wife Elizabeth RAWSON (5 s ea.), son Thomas RAWSON*, (remainder of real & personal estate). Witnesses: Thomas YELLOTT, William HOLDEN & Paul PARKIN. [Proved 4 Jul 1728].

(Marmaduke Fox must have had an interesting reputation?)

[Meg Young]

Hannah Rawson ends up marrying Peter Birk.  She has a daughter named Gertrude Birk who marries Thomas Rodgers.  Thomas Rodgers has a daughter named Gertrude Rodgers who marries John Vickers at St. Peter Cathedral in I think 1788, and John Vickers is the grandson of Mary Rawson.  Thanks to you and your introducing me to Rev. Hunter's Yorkshire pedigrees, I now know that both Mary Rawson and Hannah Rawson are my 5th great grandmothers.  So, if Hannah had married Marmaduke Fox, would I exist today? She was obviously considering the marriage, or her father wouldn't have threatened to reduce her inheritance from £200 to 5s.  I'd like to learn more about this gentleman.  And this little snippet gives a bit of background to Hannah, who must have liked Marmaduke very much. But I'm glad she didn't marry him. Thanks once again, Edmund. 

[Ponytail]

Colonel Thomas Edward Vickers (1833-1915), C.B., for many years Chairman of Vickers Ltd., Colonel of the Hallamshires, Died October 19, aged 82.

u04197

 

https://mannchess.org.uk/People/Vickers, Col Thomas Edward.htm

 

Thomas Edward Vickers.... The Peerage. 

https://www.thepeerage.com/p2559.htm

 

The Douglas Archive. 

Frances (formerly Douglas), wife of Thomas Edward Vickers. 

https://www.douglashistory.co.uk/history/frances_mary_vickers.html