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Buck Wood, Gleadless Valley


Runningman

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On a recent visit to Buck Wood I came across the foundation of an old wall, close to Berners Close and Villiers Close. Not that much remaining, probably around 3 yards, more could be buried.

I intend a re visit with trowel and spade.

I don't think it is the remains of the Deer Park boundary wall. The person with me also thought the same.

Another opinion would be helpful. Anyone interested in a visit ?

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I think your first instinct is right - it could indeed be a boundary

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16&lat=53.3553&lon=-1.4466&layers=6&right=BingHyb

Could it be the Union Boundary (which is probably following a pre-existing boundary marked by a wall)

Though it begs the question, what exactly is a Union Boundary - I think it has something to do with counties or boroughs being merged, but google isn't being that helpful today

Screen Shot 2017-10-21 at 10.54.14.png

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That wall is most certainly the boundary wall to Sheffield Park. Buck Wood is mentioned in Harrison's Survey of 1637, only it was called Berrystorth Wood then. But it is the same size and the position of Buck Wood. The wood itself was not really part of Sheffield Park, but is connected with it. In the survey it was given to Elizabeth Skelton for her being one of the Park Keepers. She would have used it to partly to make a living from it. It's likely her husband was the Park Keeper, but he had died by the time of 1637 and so she had the job itself. Her lodge was probably where Paddock Farm stood. 

Hurlfield on that map was part of the Woodthorpe Hall estate, which was in turn part of the Handsworth Parish and Union. Handsworth having it's own Urban District Council at one time.

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Good evening unrecordings and History dude and thanks for your prompt replies !

The OS map identifies a boundary, what appears to be of the Sheffield Township and Nether Hallam within Ecclesall Bierlow in the situation under question, no doubt there.

What we don't know without some very educated advice from an ' EXPERT ' is just how old that wall foundation is !

Is it indeed remains of the Deer Park wall or a much later build ?

The Deer Park would I presume have been a dry build  i.e. no mortar between the joints or was there mortar used in such a construction of that age ?

A trial excavation will give the answer !

unrecordings, Is it possible to give a precise year for the map within the period of 1888 - 1913 ?

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Googling Sheffield Deer Park (and I think this was on Picture Sheffield) and the wall was a substantial dry stone wall around 2ft wide at the base

As for the map age, sorry no, I think the maps were all compiled over 25 years. The only way to date the Sheffield portion might be to look at areas where Sheffield was expanding and date it from there

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Hi again unrecordings.

Good point re possible width of Deer Park wall.

What I found was certainly not substantial, may be a max of a foot and no more.

Why I wonder was a wall constructed rather than just a fence to mark a Township boundary ?

Can we assume one purpose was to retain the stock of Paddock Farm

Perhaps also an indication of status. 

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37 minutes ago, Runningman said:

Hi again unrecordings.

Good point re possible width of Deer Park wall.

What I found was certainly not substantial, may be a max of a foot and no more.

Why I wonder was a wall constructed rather than just a fence to mark a Township boundary ?

Can we assume one purpose was to retain the stock of Paddock Farm

Perhaps also an indication of status. 

I don't know much about the Deer Park wall but I don't think you could have a dry stone wall a foot wide at the base, though a small one with plenty of batter could possibly be a foot wide at the top. Could it be a revetment you have found or possibly one side of an earth bank like a Cornish Hedge. Get your spade out Runningman  and keep us informed please, this could turn out to be very interesting and even if not historic it' will be nice to know what it is.

EDIT Any chance of a photo'  please?

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If you go to the original map you can see additional annotation on the nature of the Sheffield Township boundary.  For example on my screengrab FW is Face of Wall indicating I assume that a wall follows the boundary. Over to the West (off the edge of that screengrab) are 3ft RH markings, indicating that at that point the boundary was 3ft from the rootline of the hedge - ie no wall. So the wall itself may have enclosed Buck Wood

(and this is assuming the wall you've found is running roughly East/West)

 

edit - if you look at the aerial photo of the area, there seems to be something square-ish in the trees, not marked on, or near anything of interest on the ancient maps - maybe you've found this ?

Screen Shot 2017-10-21 at 23.02.32.png

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I have done plenty of research on Sheffield Park and though a 15th Century wall might not be there now, it doesn't mean it's not part of the Sheffield Park Wall. Simply because deer parks are not static and are changed over time. I have found a reference to the new intack gate as part of the new park, in the middle 1660 when most think the park was finished. That included a new wall some of which stretched down to the Manor Estate. But there is every indication that the wall continued along Hurlfield to Buck Wood. As with all stone wall's they do fall down and stones are removed from them and if you have just crops in a field you don't need to rebuild it has high as it was. 

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Good evening and thanks to History dude, unrecordings and boginspro for your replies, all this is interesting information !

boginspro, Yes, I am in that wood for a scratch around with a trowel and spade when I can find the time.

Not this week but probably week commencing Monday 30th. I will let you all know, would be nice to have someone with me for further opinions.

Don't imagine you will come down from your Scottish outpost, will keep you informed. Will attempt to post a photo, but what I have are poor representations of the location.

unrecordings, some interesting and thoughtful comments  i.e. you are right, something squareish in the trees, that's worth a look at also.

Yes, I would say the wall runs east to west.

History dude. Would make sense would it not for what I have found is on the line of the Deer Park wall ?

 

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It's clearly a wall which has been worn away over time. But to confirm it is a park wall, I would need to know where it is. If it runs along the edge of the wood, then it will be the park wall.

This below is the Manor Wall, which shows the construction of a deer park wall.

Note how the base of the wall has smaller flat stones. While the upper sections, which have been repaired are less well thought out.

Park Wall001.jpg

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Hi History dude

Most of it dry stone built I see, then it would be of course.

Will you manage a visit to the wood during the week or would a Sat / Sun be preferred ?

I am a poor old retired pensioner with not that much time on my hands actually !!

Look forward to your reply.   Anyone else interested in a visit and a dig in the wood is welcome.

Have you seen the section of what is thought to be the Deer Park Wall on the one way system at Manor Top at the rear of the supermarket ?

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39 minutes ago, Runningman said:

Have you seen the section of what is thought to be the Deer Park Wall on the one way system at Manor Top at the rear of the supermarket ?

Where is that exactly please?

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I have been shown this section of wall  by what I would term a very reliable source

I will give you 2 directions !

Travelling up Mansfield Road towards Manor Top, opposite the fire station you bear left on a one way system which I believe is Hurlfield Road.

On the right there is a section of the Deer Park wall at the rear of the supermarket which has had a ' modern ' day brick built wall laid on top of it.

Travelling down Mansfield Road from Manor Top, keep right and in 200 yards bear right onto the section of one way, again the wall is on your right.

I will state my opinion here and that is I don't think the wall is the remains of the Deer Park wall. It may lay on the line of the Deer Park wall, but as actually being the remains I don't think so !

Off to bed folks, will look again tomorrow at any replies

 

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Just an update.

I have a friend who tells me the wall foundation has been recorded in very recent years.

I await a meeting with her and more conversation and then an action plan for an on site investigation

Watch this space !

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I have come across a copy of a report by the Northern Archaeological Associates produced in 2001 re Buck Wood.

It is part of a study titled ' Fuelling the Revolution ' The Woods that Founded the Steel Country.

Contained within is a map of the wood showing the location together with 34 ten figure grid references of historical positions, none of which it is commented could be securely dated,

but the majority thought to be post medieval.

34 is a surprise to me, not realising the wood contained so much of interest. A 1996 assessment of the woods archaeology recorded the existence of a medieval bank and ditch, a fact known to the many amateur historians with an interest in the wood.

Sites identified include 2 boundary banks ( possible spoil remains ) and a boundary wall, a track, various pits ( charcoal, white coal, quarry and coal prospecting ) What are described as 3 terraces ( processing areas ) platforms ( possible charcoal burning ) a gulley ( possible drainage from the housing estate )  and a hollow.

Periods attributed to the locations are Medieval, Post Medieval and Modern. One of the banks in the north west of the wood is thought to be the remains of the boundary of the            Sheffield Deer Park., this bank further in the wood has been disturbed by the construction of the adjacent housing development. Comment is made about the presence of litter, tipping and scattered rubbish from the adjacent estate.

All the sites are classified as of lesser archaeological importance with the exception of the Deer Park Boundary.

Damage by tipping and erosion due well worn footpaths has been a long term problem.

I will add that my Grandfather in the 1920's dug for coal as did many Heeley residents during times of hardship. 

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Heres a map of 1903 showing the Parliamentary boundaries. It also shows clearly HURLFIELD HILL which quite wrongly is now called by new-comers as Gleadless Hill. Its Hurlfield Hill !!

Hurlfield 1903.png

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