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tozzin

Turf Tavern West Bar

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I'm finding it hard to find any reference to The Turf Tavern on West Bar, I've looked in the 1852, 1862 and 1878 directories and there's no listing, what does fox me is the change of postal numbering, it's given as No 77 but at that number no pub or Beerhouse.

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On the 1901 census, the Turf Tavern is given as number 77 West Bar and the White Swan Hotel is at 67-73 with a picture frame maker in between the two. 

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Here's the Insurance map from 1896 showing a pub at number 77 West Bar.  Assuming that it is the Turf Tavern, the site was subsequently used for the Don Picture Palace (from 1912)

58bfd1a3b16df_turfinn1896.png.f32ac6da0fc71b22c8a408c8e331ea95.png

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2 hours ago, tozzin said:

I'm finding it hard to find any reference to The Turf Tavern on West Bar, I've looked in the 1852, 1862 and 1878 directories and there's no listing, what does fox me is the change of postal numbering, it's given as No 77 but at that number no pub or Beerhouse.

Sheffield Daily Telegraph 09 March 1881

Prior to this date it looks like it was called THE OLD TURF TAVERN if that helps.

 

Turf.JPG

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1 hour ago, Edmund said:

Here's the Insurance map from 1896 showing a pub at number 77 West Bar.  Assuming that it is the Turf Tavern, the site was subsequently used for the Don Picture Palace (from 1912)

58bfd1a3b16df_turfinn1896.png.f32ac6da0fc71b22c8a408c8e331ea95.png

This explains a lot, thanks very much.

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Is this where the Don Picture Palace/Bri-nylon shop thing was ?

Turf

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22 minutes ago, RichardB said:

Is this where the Don Picture Palace/Bri-nylon shop thing was ?

Turf

Yes Richard.

os map #03.jpg

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Right, well, here's a marvellous find. We already knew that one Jarvis Collier had the Turf Tavern in 1871 (see A-Z) and this article from 1900 suggests Mrs Collier had held a license for 40 years. I don't have access to Ancestry but a couple of good questions for anyone that does = when did Jarvis pass away ?  What was his wife first name and was it her all the way through to 1900, or did it pass to any other Colliers during that time ? etc etc

Turf.JPG

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27 minutes ago, RichardB said:

Right, well, here's a marvellous find. We already knew that one Jarvis Collier had the Turf Tavern in 1871 (see A-Z) and this article from 1900 suggests Mrs Collier had held a license for 40 years. I don't have access to Ancestry but a couple of good questions for anyone that does = when did Jarvis pass away ?  What was his wife first name and was it her all the way through to 1900, or did it pass to any other Colliers during that time ? etc etc

Turf.JPG

Two Jarvis Collier's Passed away in 1888 with the same year of Birth.  The First name of his Wife was Ann.

 

 

Old Turf.JPG

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I wanted the information for my next pubs article but the year I'll be doing is 1852 which is a few years before the  Turf Tavern was opened so I will have to omit that one and put in the Union on Furnace Hill.

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On 08/03/2017 at 07:37, tozzin said:

I'm finding it hard to find any reference to The Turf Tavern on West Bar, I've looked in the 1852, 1862 and 1878 directories and there's no listing, what does fox me is the change of postal numbering, it's given as No 77 but at that number no pub or Beerhouse.

White's directory, published 1852.

Swinscoe Henry, turner, Turf Tavern, beer house,  55 Westbar.


"turner" as in wood worker, from what I can make out?

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34 minutes ago, SteveHB said:

White's directory, published 1852.

 

Westbar.

swin_1852.jpg

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Complaints Against Publicans And Beerhouse Keepers. published June 09, 1855.

turf tav 1855.jpg

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Confirm 1852  entry Steve; just to add to the general confusion

1857, Henry Swinscoe, 53 Westbar, beerhouse

1860, H.S., 53 Westbar, beerhouse

1879, H.S. 77 Westbar, beerhouse

1881 George Lawless, 77 Westbar, beer retailer

all of which is probably more a history of 77 Westbar - makes Collier 1871-1900 er, interesting, to say the least.

 

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It seems that in 1854 The Old Turf Tavern was kept by Richard Manks, But why is a Solicitor in Birmingham inquiring about Him

54 Years later ??.

 Sheffield Daily Telegraph 31 January 1908.

 

Turf 1.JPG

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2 hours ago, SteveHB said:

In 1855 the Turf Tavern was next door to the White Swan PH.

turf tav_July 07, 1855.jpg

 

2 hours ago, RichardB said:

Confirm 1852  entry Steve; just to add to the general confusion

1857, Henry Swinscoe, 53 Westbar, beerhouse

1860, H.S., 53 Westbar, beerhouse

1879, H.S. 77 Westbar, beerhouse

1881 George Lawless, 77 Westbar, beer retailer

all of which is probably more a history of 77 Westbar - makes Collier 1871-1900 er, interesting, to say the least.

 

Would it be ok to use this information in my article? 

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11 minutes ago, tozzin said:

 

Would it be ok to use this information in my article? 

You can use any of the info I post, thanks for asking.

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Whatever next, lady landlords!

58c16d6760b9d_MatrimonialParadox1885.png.c53d7ffe46fbf6b12d5e563bdbb059e3.png

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Top notch find, as ever Edmund. Makes a mockery of my earlier find where Mrs Collier stated a claim of the license for 40 years (previous to 1900). Still no idea who idea who had the place and when !

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10 hours ago, RichardB said:

Top notch find, as ever Edmund. Makes a mockery of my earlier find where Mrs Collier stated a claim of the license for 40 years (previous to 1900). Still no idea who idea who had the place and when !

I read the Colliers' claim as having A licence for 40 years, not necessarily THE (Turf) licence for the whole period. 

Jarvis Collier (baptised 11 April 1830 son of Elizabeth and William, grinder) married Ann Parkin in 1855, at that time he was a grinder. In 1857 he was a beerhouse keeper in Tenter street, where an ex soldier stole Ann's shawl, after being given money by Jarvis for alternate accommodation as the beerhouse lodgings were full. In 1863 he was a waiter at the Arundel Castle public house where he was offered 4 pints of beer stolen from the Bazaar Hotel.In March 1868 Jarvis was at the Old Turf and was advertising a Grocery and Provision shop to let (satisfactory reasons for leaving). They were at the Newhall Grounds in 1871 -76, the connection seems to be Jarvis' interest in racing of all kinds, which he could indulge in at the Newhall pleasure grounds. He retired from the Newhall Grounds in about 1877 and took the White Hart in Doncaster (with Ann) and after that was landlord of the Red Lion on Castlegate, Tickhill in 1877 and still there at the 1881 census.

Jarvis died in 1888 at 65 Westbar.

58c260bf48c67_JarvisCollierdeath1888.png.c15e097af01c8800984afcfee0aaebdd.png

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Just as a link to this but not much help, George Tune ran the Turf in about 1900-1903. His first wife, Annie died there in 1903 and later that year George took over the Gate Inn on Hollis Croft which had previously been run by George's son-in-law's father, Patrick Naughton. George stayed at the Gate until his death in 1930, whereby the Gate was taken over by William Snape, another of George's son-in-laws, until the 1950s.  

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