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JohnEBoy

Old Wall On Norfolk Park Road

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I'm sure that I remember reading that the lake was drained around the time that the time that the old farm building was razed in preparation for building work? Would make sense.

The building work (school/college) makes a good explanation for the breaks in the wall at various points?

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I'm sure that I remember reading that the lake was drained around the time that the time that the old farm building was razed in preparation for building work? Would make sense.

The building work (school/college) makes a good explanation for the breaks in the wall at various points?

The lake in the Farm grounds definitely didn't exist in 1967.

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The lake in the Farm grounds definitely didn't exist in 1967.

Really? I thought I had seen an old map (here?) or read about some old pond or lake in the grounds behind this wall in question?

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Part of the street guide from the 1970's clearing showing both school and college and the lake still present. I'm sorry the street guide date has been lost.

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Part of the street guide from the 1970's clearing showing both school and college and the lake still present. I'm sorry the street guide date has been lost.

attachicon.gifStreet Map001.jpg

Map is incorrect, the grounds of St.Paul's Catholic School were built on the site of the lake, the school opened in 1962.

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But the School is shown! "R C School".

Do you know for certain that the lake was filled in when it was built? Source of your knowledge please?

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But the School is shown! "R C School".

Do you know for certain that the lake was filled in when it was built? Source of your knowledge please?

I don't know, I was vaguely remembering, probably incorrectly! I had seen an 'old map' but it might have been a 60's map on this site, as someone mentioned the lake from that time, above? I have only been living in this area 15mths and don't know it's history.

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But the School is shown! "R C School".

Do you know for certain that the lake was filled in when it was built? Source of your knowledge please?

I have no idea when the lake was created, however I do have a good idea when it became non existant/drained.

See this topic

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I have no idea when the lake was created, however I do have a good idea when it became non existant/drained.

See this topic

That's the map!! Possibly from the 1920's!

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attachicon.gifwallpond 001.JPG 1930/1950/1980. W/E.

Stop it W/E, I lived in the area up to 1970, nearest pond was Pond Street ... lol

Good comparison of maps though

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I have no idea when the lake was created, however I do have a good idea when it became non existant/drained.

See this topic

Having looked at the topic I saw no mention of the lake or the construction of any grounds connected with the School. Do you mean that because you had relations connected to looking after the Farm, that somehow you know that the lake was filled in before the 1970's?

The street guides were taken from OS maps. Since the map shows both the College and Roman Catholic School, that implies the lake wasn't filled in when the School and College went up. I believe that the Street Guide wasn't purchased before 1976, so unless you can say for certain a date with source, I would say that the lake was still there at least in 1970/1 depending when the OS did a survey. Don't they do them every ten years? Another indication that it was done after that date is that Victoria Station is closed. Otherwise an O.S. map for 1970 should clear up if there was a lake there then.

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Having looked at the topic I saw no mention of the lake or the construction of any grounds connected with the School. Do you mean that because you had relations connected to looking after the Farm, that somehow you know that the lake was filled in before the 1970's?

The street guides were taken from OS maps. Since the map shows both the College and Roman Catholic School, that implies the lake wasn't filled in when the School and College went up. I believe that the Street Guide wasn't purchased before 1976, so unless you can say for certain a date with source, I would say that the lake was still there at least in 1970/1 depending when the OS did a survey. Don't they do them every ten years? Another indication that it was done after that date is that Victoria Station is closed. Otherwise an O.S. map for 1970 should clear up if there was a lake there then.

Did you read my post dude? ...

I do not remember seeing the lake, but my late father told that I had, but at a very young age,

he said there were a couple of swans on the lake and I said the words "duck ducks" lol.

That would have been around 1958.

I was born in 1954, and frequented the private area within the walls from around 1958, up to and after the school was built

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The map is a Geographia dated 1980 and I must admit I was surprised to see the lake/pond still there. I would have thought that it would have been drained before the original All Saints School was built. I have a meeting at the new school next week and will have a word with Mrs Scott the new Head. W/E.

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I remember a small pond that was directly behind the wall in question (Norfolk Park Rd), the pond was of circular shape and about five or six feet in diameter surrounded by flat stones, I think that was a few years after the school was built so it could have been part of an educational project.

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Mine is a Geographia Street Guide too. I think it was the Orange coloured front version if that helps date it. I think the 1980 version was a revised version of my version, but not much updated.

I did read your post, but the post you published after that had a link to the Farm topic, which added no further information on the lake. Sorry for the confusion.

I'm sorry too SteveHB, but as an historian I have to question a person's memories unless they can be confirmed by documentary evidence, or are backed up by lots of people saying the same thing. The problem I have is that the Street Guide is based on a OS map, which either shows the lake with no school or shows both. If it had been wiped out by mining it would not have been on the OS map. Unless you can tell me that you frequented the school or went on those grounds often during 1960 to 1970, there stands a possibility that the lake was still there, perhaps used by the school.

People's memories are a minefield for historians. I should know, I was part of Manor Memories. I remember Malcom Mercer (an expert on Sheffield Schools) saying several times he can't find any references to school events that some people claimed to have been a part on. Plus in some cases the events were many years after the person said they were.

On another occasion there was the story of people keeping coal in the bath. Sheffield Council housing did check these tales out at the time they started and found no evidence of it. You should have seen the reaction to this when I said that to persons in the group. They were adamant that these tales were true.

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Dam this IE fault!

It won't let me edit that piece to say that the Guide map makers must have got the lake from somewhere, it was either present on previous map (say 1960) or on a 1970 map. I really can't imagine them using a 1950's OS map to make a 70's street guide. They could have then added the school to the 1960's map to produce the 70's Street Guide, which would explain the lake being there even if it was filled in when the school was built.

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The lake is not present on a map labelled 1968 - 1971 1:2,500 map which can be seen on Old Maps, the area being labelled as Playing Fields.

As this map is labelled Crown Copyright I assume it is an Ordnance Survey map.

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Primary evidence is what is required...and more than one source if possible! ...As History dude says, memories and recollections, whilst interesting and valuable, can be a minefield. As for Geographia, I had a mid- 1960s Sheffield map which still showed a pylons running across a field despite them being demolished nearly 20 years earlier..

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Today, in addition to the strange block 'footings' in the attached pictures (had trouble using uploader?) some of which you have seen before from another angle, I have found a new oddity- the strange ''archway'' at/below the ground level?

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Today, in addition to the strange block 'footings' in the attached pictures (had trouble using uploader?) some of which you have seen before from another angle, I have found a new oddity- the strange ''archway'' at/below the ground level?

I have just had a quick look on Google and there appears to be more than one of those "archways"

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I have just had a quick look on Google and there appears to be more than one of those "archways"

And................? <_<

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And................? <_<

Think we should change the topic title to "The Wall of Mysteries"

lol

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